Question:

How hard is it to get from the airport to a hotel in the central city?  Our travel agent is recommending a transfer that costs $60 U.S., but it seems likely that a taxi, or even a bus, would be readily available and far cheaper.

Response:

> How hard is it to get from the airport to a hotel in the central city? >  Our travel agent is recommending a transfer that costs $60 U.S., but > it seems likely that a taxi, or even a bus, would be readily available > and far cheaper.

Assuming your are arriving at the Florence airport and not Pisa, there is a bus leaving every 25 minutes or so and it is only 15 minutes or so to the city as it is only 3 miles or so away. The bus puts you down near the main railroad station. Also, a taxi would be less than $60. Paul

Response:

> How hard is it to get from the airport to a hotel in the central city? >  Our travel agent is recommending a transfer that costs $60 U.S., but > it seems likely that a taxi, or even a bus, would be readily available > and far cheaper.

If you are talking about the Florence airport, it is quite close to the centre. A taxi should be euro 10-15 (according to the route and the traffic). The bus is a bit overpriced and the taxi may be worth the extra expense. Sometimes the Pisa airport is sold as Florence. In this case you simply take a train from the airport terminal to downtown Florence (about 1 hour). —

Response:

How hard is it to get from the airport to a hotel in the central city?  Our travel agent is recommending a transfer that costs $60 U.S., but it seems likely that a taxi, or even a bus, would be readily available and far cheaper.

Response:

> How hard is it to get from the airport to a hotel in the central city? >  Our travel agent is recommending a transfer that costs $60 U.S., but > it seems likely that a taxi, or even a bus, would be readily available > and far cheaper.

Assuming your are arriving at the Florence airport and not Pisa, there is a bus leaving every 25 minutes or so and it is only 15 minutes or so to the city as it is only 3 miles or so away. The bus puts you down near the main railroad station. Also, a taxi would be less than $60. Paul

Response:

> How hard is it to get from the airport to a hotel in the central city? >  Our travel agent is recommending a transfer that costs $60 U.S., but > it seems likely that a taxi, or even a bus, would be readily available > and far cheaper.

If you are talking about the Florence airport, it is quite close to the centre. A taxi should be euro 10-15 (according to the route and the traffic). The bus is a bit overpriced and the taxi may be worth the extra expense. Sometimes the Pisa airport is sold as Florence. In this case you simply take a train from the airport terminal to downtown Florence (about 1 hour). —

Response:

Question:

> Briefly this is how I’m travelling when I’m in Italy. > I will be travelling from Paris to Venice (no more flights direct to > Rome), Venice to Florence, Florence to Siena, Florence to Pisa, > Florence to Rome, and then finally, Rome back to Paris. > I calculated and found the Saver Pass (US$209) costs less than the > individual tickets. But I’ve not taken into consideration the > reservation costs.

This thread suffers from a bit of confusion: generally speaking, if you travel always within Italy a pass woun’t pay itself unless you travel really a lot. But if you add a couple of international legs, as in the itinerary above, maybe some pass may be cheaper. —

Response:

> Briefly this is how I’m travelling when I’m in Italy. > I will be travelling from Paris to Venice (no more flights direct to > Rome), Venice to Florence, Florence to Siena, Florence to Pisa, > Florence to Rome, and then finally, Rome back to Paris.

Taking a bus from Florence to Siena is more convenient. The train leaves you outside the walls, the bus inside close to the center. The bus station in Florence is across the street from the main train station. Marianne

Response:

Briefly this is how I’m travelling when I’m in Italy. I will be travelling from Paris to Venice (no more flights direct to Rome), Venice to Florence, Florence to Siena, Florence to Pisa, Florence to Rome, and then finally, Rome back to Paris. I calculated and found the Saver Pass (US$209) costs less than the individual tickets. But I’ve not taken into consideration the reservation costs. karen http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

Here is my idea of a typical tourist visit to Italy, take 12 days as an example.  This is a straw man tour, but similar to one we actually did in February.  Requires a 5 day train pass. day 1 – train from MUC to base city – Verona and Bologna have the advantage as a base in that they are both on major north-south and east-west rail lines.  However it is my understanding that hotels in Bologna can be a bit pricey and hard to find (dunno if that is true).  I personally think Verona, Bozen and Merano offer a lot of hotel variety, but Merano is a bit off the beaten track so to speak.  Heh, I suppose the true Tifosi would stay in Modena. days 2-3-4 browse Verona day 5 browse Padova day 6 browse Venizia day 7 return to Venizia or browse Bozen or Brixen For days 5-7 I would buy individual rail tickets.  And of course one can substitute Bologna for Verona, Parma for Venizia, etc. By now the blisters should be so bad it is time to rest the feet, so days 8-11 can be circle tours to really see the area.  I’ve mentioned a few in Italy and one covering Italy and Austria, one could also do a variation through Switzerland – say: Verona/Milano/Chiasso/Bellinzona/Zurich/Basel/Brig/Milano/Verona or a trip south of Firenze perhaps.  Another interesting day or two might be spent taking a funicular from Merano.  Day 12 – off to departure airport.  And all of those interesting secondary rail routes indicated by the dots in the Orario just waiting to be take a funicular from Merano or Brixen the first day and spend the whole time wandering through the meadows, so you’re right that a rail pass wouldn’t do much good for that sort of tourist. I forgot to mention that most towns we toured had a good concert schedule, which made for a couple pleasant evenings. > Umm, to take one of your examples, if I read my Orario correctly, we > would actually do Firenze/Venezia as: > > Firenze/Pistoia/Poretta/Bologna/Verona/Venizia/Padova/Rovigo/Ferrara/Ravenn a/Granarolo > Faentino/Faenza/Firenze > If that’s your idea of a day’s outing in Italy, then it’s very different > from that of most people, who would prefer to see Bologna, Verona, > Padua, Ferrara, Ravenna and Venice rather than pass through them

Well, I would stop in Pistoia to see it’s historic engine display. in a > train. For someone like you, probably any sort of rail pass is a good > buy. However, I still wouldn’t recommend a rail pass for the vast > majority of tourists in Italy. > Barbara

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve added my thoughts down thru the text, seemed easier. > More to the point, both of these trips seem unrealistic to make in a > single day. Would you actually take a train to Venice only to hop on > another train to Verona without seeing Venice? > Oh, absolutely.  BTDT.  We consider these typical day circle trips. > Very easily doable in a day if you make all the connections…… > Obviously these are dependent on the trains keeping to the schedule, as > some of the connection are 10 minutes or less.  Actually we took a > separate Bozen/Verona/Venizia trip to see Venizia itself.  Regrettably > it was so chilly and windy we only spent a few hours there before > heading in the reverse direction back to the hotel. > To give some examples of typical tourist itineraries: > Rome to Florence: 21.95 euro > Florence to Venice: 18.75 euro > Venice to Rome: 35.89 euro > Rome to Naples: 16.53 > Umm, to take one of your examples, if I read my Orario correctly, we > would actually do Firenze/Venezia as: > Firenze/Pistoia/Poretta/Bologna/Verona/Venizia/Padova/Rovigo/Ferrara/Ravenn a/Granarolo > Faentino/Faenza/Firenze

If that’s your idea of a day’s outing in Italy, then it’s very different from that of most people, who would prefer to see Bologna, Verona, Padua, Ferrara, Ravenna and Venice rather than pass through them in a train. For someone like you, probably any sort of rail pass is a good buy. However, I still wouldn’t recommend a rail pass for the vast majority of tourists in Italy. Barbara

Response:

I’ve travelled by train all over Italy and have NEVER found that a pass was cheaper than buying tickets for each leg of my trip.  Even the senior pass would never have saved me money. But I’ve always traveled alone.  It’s quite possible that there are passes for two or more people that will pay off.  I suspect you’d have to cover substantial distances, though…..

Response:

> I’ve travelled by train all over Italy and have NEVER found that a > pass was cheaper than buying tickets for each leg of my trip.  Even > the senior pass would never have saved me money.

Does a Carta Verde count as a pass in your eyes? In that case (which is my case), it has paid off after a round-trip Florence-Sicily. And is still valid for another half a year. R

Response:

I’ve added my thoughts down thru the text, seemed easier. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There are assorted passes and the price will vary a bit between vendors, > but one I checked shows 4 days, second class, within Italy, for $163 per > person for two or more people.  First class is $40 per person more. > Three countries, five days, first class, is $304 per person.  Not too > bad it seems – say you fly from the States to MUC, then rail down to the > Bologna area.  That rail segment in itself is about a $100 one way trip. > I’m not sure what MUC is; if it is Munich, the major portion of the cost > would be the German portion. From Bressanone (Brixen) to Bologna > (approximately the Italian portion of the trip), the cost in 2nd class > in an IR train is 13,22 euro. The three-country pass may pay off, as > German rail is quite expensive. My original comment regarded the Italian > rail passes, which I said were rarely good value for the typical

Yes MUC is Munich, one has to get to Italy from the States somehow and MUC typically offers the cheapest air fares. Besides, it is a scenic ride down from MUC to Italy whether one goes straight via the Brenner pass route or, say, via Salzburg and Udine.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> tourist. >   [snip] > Addressing the example of the Italian pass, it would seem to be of value > if the average cost of a day’s travel were over $40. > Verona/Fornovo/Aulla/Lucca/Pistoia/Portello/Bologna/Verona > or > Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen/Spittal/Villach/Udine/Treviso/Venizia/Verona > I actually never tried to cost out one of these trips on the basis of > individual tickets.  …  Can you do one of those trips for > $35 2nd class? > 1st trip: It would take me a long time to calculate each individual leg, > but the cost from Verona to Lucca (partially in EC service) is 20,15. > The total cost of the circle would be approximately double that.

And it would also probably take a ticket agent a long time to calculate > From Udine to Venice (passing through Treviso) is 6.82 euro; from Venice > to Verona (IC service) is 9.40. The rest of the itinerary seems to be > outside Italy, where the Italian pass won’t be valid.

Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen is basically in Italy, but the comment is true as Innichen to Udine is mostly in Austria.   > On most of these 2 itineraries, only 2nd class service is available, so > it wouldn’t make sense to get a 1st class pass. > More to the point, both of these trips seem unrealistic to make in a > single day. Would you actually take a train to Venice only to hop on > another train to Verona without seeing Venice?

Oh, absolutely.  BTDT.  We consider these typical day circle trips. Very easily doable in a day if you make all the connections…… Obviously these are dependent on the trains keeping to the schedule, as some of the connection are 10 minutes or less.  Actually we took a separate Bozen/Verona/Venizia trip to see Venizia itself.  Regrettably it was so chilly and windy we only spent a few hours there before heading in the reverse direction back to the hotel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> To give some examples of typical tourist itineraries: > Rome to Florence: 21.95 euro > Florence to Venice: 18.75 euro > Venice to Rome: 35.89 euro > Rome to Naples: 16.53 > These are all IC service trains, the most expensive for which > pass-holders don’t have to pay a supplement. None of these trips hits > the $40 ceiling. The total for these four days of travel is 93.12 euro, > versus $163 for the pass. The convenience of not buying tickets is $50, > increasing the cost of travel by more than 50%. Besides, on all of these > routes I would prefer to travel Eurostar, which would mean that I would > have to go to the ticket window even with the pass, in order to pay the > supplement and reserve the seats. So the convenience would be nil. > Barbara

Umm, to take one of your examples, if I read my Orario correctly, we would actually do Firenze/Venezia as: Firenze/Pistoia/Poretta/Bologna/Verona/Venizia/Padova/Rovigo/Ferrara/Ravenn a/Granarolo Faentino/Faenza/Firenze I’m not actually sure now about the last little Ravenna/…/Firenze bit, may need to do some rerouting depending on those connections.  Remember you need to double your prices per day since a circle trip would at the least be as expensive as a regular RT.  So your total for the four days of travel is really $186+, or about $20 more than the pass.  Of course ‘R’ trains will be cheaper than the ‘IC’’s.   AFAIK, Italian rail does not offer a discount for RT versus OW (e.g. Amtrak used to offer a RT discount outside the NorthEast Corridor, not sure if they still do). Out of curiosity we took the Eurostar on a Venizia/Verona segment, didn’t really do that much for us other than it had working bathrooms (useful, that); generally we did fine on the ‘R’ trains. I doubt we would bother with the ‘ES’ again unless its schedule happened to be particularly convenient. — wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

I figured we wouldn’t qualify, but I thought I’d ask anyway. You’re right about the pass vs point-to-point, I can’t figure out why anyone would want a rail pass.  Trenitalia was really useful, to calculate fares. (Site seems to be down this weekend). Sorry, another question: what about the supplements?  Is the Trenitalia fare quote accurate, or will additional euros be tacked on at the ticket office? Thanks again for your very useful advice, Jennifer

Response:

> You’re right about the pass vs point-to-point, I can’t figure out why anyone > would want a rail pass.  Trenitalia was really useful, to calculate fares.

Ordinary train fares in Italy are already lower than European averages. Since several years, the railway administration is trying to have people paying at least the already low ordinary fare by pricing rail passes at amounts convenient only to people really travelling a lot. —

Response:

> I figured we wouldn’t qualify, but I thought I’d ask anyway. > You’re right about the pass vs point-to-point, I can’t figure out why anyone > would want a rail pass.  Trenitalia was really useful, to calculate fares. > (Site seems to be down this weekend). > Sorry, another question: what about the supplements?  Is the Trenitalia fare > quote accurate, or will additional euros be tacked on at the ticket office?

On the trenitalia site, the ticket price you see is the actual price you will pay. You’ll notice, for example, that the Eurostar trains cost more than the IC trains. If you have a rail pass, it covers IC trains but you would have to pay a supplement for an ES train. The supplement is equivalent to the price difference. Barbara

Response:

> There are assorted passes and the price will vary a bit between vendors, > but one I checked shows 4 days, second class, within Italy, for $163 per > person for two or more people.  First class is $40 per person more. > Three countries, five days, first class, is $304 per person.  Not too > bad it seems – say you fly from the States to MUC, then rail down to the > Bologna area.  That rail segment in itself is about a $100 one way trip.

I’m not sure what MUC is; if it is Munich, the major portion of the cost would be the German portion. From Bressanone (Brixen) to Bologna (approximately the Italian portion of the trip), the cost in 2nd class in an IR train is 13,22 euro. The three-country pass may pay off, as German rail is quite expensive. My original comment regarded the Italian rail passes, which I said were rarely good value for the typical tourist.   [snip] Addressing the example of the Italian pass, it would seem to be of value if the average cost of a day’s travel were over $40. > Verona/Fornovo/Aulla/Lucca/Pistoia/Portello/Bologna/Verona > or > Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen/Spittal/Villach/Udine/Treviso/Venizia/Verona > I actually never tried to cost out one of these trips on the basis of > individual tickets.  …  Can you do one of those trips for > $35 2nd class?

1st trip: It would take me a long time to calculate each individual leg, but the cost from Verona to Lucca (partially in EC service) is 20,15. The total cost of the circle would be approximately double that. From Udine to Venice (passing through Treviso) is 6.82 euro; from Venice to Verona (IC service) is 9.40. The rest of the itinerary seems to be outside Italy, where the Italian pass won’t be valid. On most of these 2 itineraries, only 2nd class service is available, so it wouldn’t make sense to get a 1st class pass. More to the point, both of these trips seem unrealistic to make in a single day. Would you actually take a train to Venice only to hop on another train to Verona without seeing Venice? To give some examples of typical tourist itineraries: Rome to Florence: 21.95 euro Florence to Venice: 18.75 euro Venice to Rome: 35.89 euro Rome to Naples: 16.53 These are all IC service trains, the most expensive for which pass-holders don’t have to pay a supplement. None of these trips hits the $40 ceiling. The total for these four days of travel is 93.12 euro, versus $163 for the pass. The convenience of not buying tickets is $50, increasing the cost of travel by more than 50%. Besides, on all of these routes I would prefer to travel Eurostar, which would mean that I would have to go to the ticket window even with the pass, in order to pay the supplement and reserve the seats. So the convenience would be nil. Barbara

Response:

There are assorted passes and the price will vary a bit between vendors, but one I checked shows 4 days, second class, within Italy, for $163 per person for two or more people.  First class is $40 per person more. Three countries, five days, first class, is $304 per person.  Not too bad it seems – say you fly from the States to MUC, then rail down to the Bologna area.  That rail segment in itself is about a $100 one way trip. One thing I don’t recall about the second class tickets purchased at the station is how soon after stamping the tickets in the yellow machine you have to use them.  If you are doing circle trips such as we do: Verona/Fornovo/Aulla/Lucca/Pistoia/Portello/Bologna/Verona or Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen/Spittal/Villach/Udine/Treviso/Venizia/Verona then obviously you have to punch all the tickets in the yellow machine before you leave in the morning, since some of these are tight connections, less than 10 minutes, and you might not have time to run into a station and stamp a ticket for the next leg of the trip. I actually never tried to cost out one of these trips on the basis of individual tickets.  If you figure, say, that MUC/BLQ is worth $200 and two days of your pass, then you can do three days of circle tours for the other $100, or about $35 a day.  Can you do one of those trips for $35 2nd class? > Well we used the Saver card for more travel than just this trip of > course.  The point was if doing a lot of this sort of circle routing, > which we did, the convenience of a pass for outweighs the hassle of > getting the cheaper individual tickets. > Just for curiosity, how much did your pass cost? How many days of travel > did it include? Was it for two people? I tried to do a little cost > comparison for the benefit of r.t.e readers, but the Trenitalia site > doesn’t give the cost of these passes. > Barbara

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

I thought some of the ES trains had non-reserved cars. Am I mistaken as usual? Of course, even if this is true, reserving makes sense. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does > that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass? > Exactly. And you have to reserve the place also, you cannot just show up > and board. Often you can reserve a place for a train leaving in half an > hour, but to be sure you’d better reserve the day before. > —

Response:

> I thought some of the ES trains had non-reserved cars. Am I mistaken as > usual? Of course, even if this is true, reserving makes sense.

This has changed some time ago. Now all places on ES trains should be reserved. —

Response:

> Well we used the Saver card for more travel than just this trip of > course.  The point was if doing a lot of this sort of circle routing, > which we did, the convenience of a pass for outweighs the hassle of > getting the cheaper individual tickets.

Just for curiosity, how much did your pass cost? How many days of travel did it include? Was it for two people? I tried to do a little cost comparison for the benefit of r.t.e readers, but the Trenitalia site doesn’t give the cost of these passes. Barbara

Response:

We rode the Eurostar from Venizia to Verona back in February (just to see what it was like); we got our reservations about four hours ahead of time, however they were about the last available seats on the train – it was full. > Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does > that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass? > Exactly. And you have to reserve the place also, you cannot just show up > and board. Often you can reserve a place for a train leaving in half an > hour, but to be sure you’d better reserve the day before. > —

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

Thanks, Luca.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I thought some of the ES trains had non-reserved cars. Am I mistaken as > usual? Of course, even if this is true, reserving makes sense. > This has changed some time ago. Now all places on ES trains should be > reserved. > —

Response:

>On the trenitalia site, the ticket price you see is the actual price you >will pay. You’ll notice, for example, that the Eurostar trains cost more >than the IC trains. If you have a rail pass, it covers IC trains but you >would have to pay a supplement for an ES train. The supplement is >equivalent to the price difference.

Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass? karen http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does > that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass?

Exactly. And you have to reserve the place also, you cannot just show up and board. Often you can reserve a place for a train leaving in half an hour, but to be sure you’d better reserve the day before. —

Response:

Well we used the Saver card for more travel than just this trip of course.  The point was if doing a lot of this sort of circle routing, which we did, the convenience of a pass for outweighs the hassle of getting the cheaper individual tickets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Personally I would get an Italy Flexirail Saver card, and probably the > first class version instead of the second class.  The Saver card is for > two or more people and price goes according to number of days of > travel.  More expensive than individual tickets if you just do a little > bit of second class travel, but real handy if you do circle trips.  For > instance, we did a one day circle of > Verona/Fornovo/Pisa/Pistoia/Porretto/Bologna/Verona. > The last time I checked the price of this pass, I found that it cost a > lot more than the cost of individual tickets unless you were taking very > long trips. I have a feeling that on the above circle route, you paid an > awful lot for the convenience. > I also don’t agree that it’s worth the cost to travel 1st class. I would > rather spend the money on a Eurostar train, whose 2nd class is more > comfortable than 1st class in the other trains. The only time I ride 1st > class is when I can’t find a seat in 2nd class, which is very rare. In > that case, I upgrade on the train, paying a penalty. > Barbara

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

> I’m going to Italy next month, and will do a fair bit of train travel from > town to town.  I’ve followed everyone’s advice not to bother with a rail > pass.  I did notice several rail cards on the Trenitalia site.  I’m having > trouble figuring out the various cards, to see if any are suitable. > Any suggestions?   We’re 33 and 40, I have an ISIC card, if that matters.

Without knowing the specifics of your travel, I have to hazard a guess that none of the various rail cards would really suit your purposes. It’s possible that the group travel fare would be advantageous, but when I went to the trenitalia web site and tried to click on it I got an error. You could ask about this before buying your tickets. I don’t think it requires any card. Rail travel in Italy is quite inexpensive, in any case. Barbara

Response:

> Personally I would get an Italy Flexirail Saver card, and probably the > first class version instead of the second class.  The Saver card is for > two or more people and price goes according to number of days of > travel.  More expensive than individual tickets if you just do a little > bit of second class travel, but real handy if you do circle trips.  For > instance, we did a one day circle of > Verona/Fornovo/Pisa/Pistoia/Porretto/Bologna/Verona.

The last time I checked the price of this pass, I found that it cost a lot more than the cost of individual tickets unless you were taking very long trips. I have a feeling that on the above circle route, you paid an awful lot for the convenience. I also don’t agree that it’s worth the cost to travel 1st class. I would rather spend the money on a Eurostar train, whose 2nd class is more comfortable than 1st class in the other trains. The only time I ride 1st class is when I can’t find a seat in 2nd class, which is very rare. In that case, I upgrade on the train, paying a penalty. Barbara

Response:

I’m going to Italy next month, and will do a fair bit of train travel from town to town.  I’ve followed everyone’s advice not to bother with a rail pass.  I did notice several rail cards on the Trenitalia site.  I’m having trouble figuring out the various cards, to see if any are suitable. Any suggestions?   We’re 33 and 40, I have an ISIC card, if that matters. Thanks, Jennifer

Response:

Personally I would get an Italy Flexirail Saver card, and probably the first class version instead of the second class.  The Saver card is for two or more people and price goes according to number of days of travel.  More expensive than individual tickets if you just do a little bit of second class travel, but real handy if you do circle trips.  For instance, we did a one day circle of Verona/Fornovo/Pisa/Pistoia/Porretto/Bologna/Verona. This would be a fistful of individual second class tickets to punch and keep straight (not to mention the looks from the station agent and the people behind you while you are getting all those individual tickets)! With a pass you just show it.  Furthermore depending on your tickets you may have to pay upgrades on certain trains (say you decide to ride an ‘EC’ instead of an ‘R’).  With a pass you should only have to pay surcharges on the Eurostar (which we did once out of curiosity). Depending on route and time of year you might find second class full, so I prefer the first class card since it works everywhere. BTW, I have no idea what ian ISIC card is. > I’m going to Italy next month, and will do a fair bit of train travel from > town to town.  I’ve followed everyone’s advice not to bother with a rail > pass.  I did notice several rail cards on the Trenitalia site.  I’m having > trouble figuring out the various cards, to see if any are suitable. > Any suggestions?   We’re 33 and 40, I have an ISIC card, if that matters. > Thanks, Jennifer

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

I’m going to Italy next month, and will do a fair bit of train travel from town to town.  I’ve followed everyone’s advice not to bother with a rail pass.  I did notice several rail cards on the Trenitalia site.  I’m having trouble figuring out the various cards, to see if any are suitable. Any suggestions?   We’re 33 and 40, I have an ISIC card, if that matters. Thanks, Jennifer

Response:

Personally I would get an Italy Flexirail Saver card, and probably the first class version instead of the second class.  The Saver card is for two or more people and price goes according to number of days of travel.  More expensive than individual tickets if you just do a little bit of second class travel, but real handy if you do circle trips.  For instance, we did a one day circle of Verona/Fornovo/Pisa/Pistoia/Porretto/Bologna/Verona. This would be a fistful of individual second class tickets to punch and keep straight (not to mention the looks from the station agent and the people behind you while you are getting all those individual tickets)! With a pass you just show it.  Furthermore depending on your tickets you may have to pay upgrades on certain trains (say you decide to ride an ‘EC’ instead of an ‘R’).  With a pass you should only have to pay surcharges on the Eurostar (which we did once out of curiosity). Depending on route and time of year you might find second class full, so I prefer the first class card since it works everywhere. BTW, I have no idea what ian ISIC card is. > I’m going to Italy next month, and will do a fair bit of train travel from > town to town.  I’ve followed everyone’s advice not to bother with a rail > pass.  I did notice several rail cards on the Trenitalia site.  I’m having > trouble figuring out the various cards, to see if any are suitable. > Any suggestions?   We’re 33 and 40, I have an ISIC card, if that matters. > Thanks, Jennifer

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

> I’m going to Italy next month, and will do a fair bit of train travel from > town to town.  I’ve followed everyone’s advice not to bother with a rail > pass.  I did notice several rail cards on the Trenitalia site.  I’m having > trouble figuring out the various cards, to see if any are suitable. > Any suggestions?   We’re 33 and 40, I have an ISIC card, if that matters.

Without knowing the specifics of your travel, I have to hazard a guess that none of the various rail cards would really suit your purposes. It’s possible that the group travel fare would be advantageous, but when I went to the trenitalia web site and tried to click on it I got an error. You could ask about this before buying your tickets. I don’t think it requires any card. Rail travel in Italy is quite inexpensive, in any case. Barbara

Response:

> Personally I would get an Italy Flexirail Saver card, and probably the > first class version instead of the second class.  The Saver card is for > two or more people and price goes according to number of days of > travel.  More expensive than individual tickets if you just do a little > bit of second class travel, but real handy if you do circle trips.  For > instance, we did a one day circle of > Verona/Fornovo/Pisa/Pistoia/Porretto/Bologna/Verona.

The last time I checked the price of this pass, I found that it cost a lot more than the cost of individual tickets unless you were taking very long trips. I have a feeling that on the above circle route, you paid an awful lot for the convenience. I also don’t agree that it’s worth the cost to travel 1st class. I would rather spend the money on a Eurostar train, whose 2nd class is more comfortable than 1st class in the other trains. The only time I ride 1st class is when I can’t find a seat in 2nd class, which is very rare. In that case, I upgrade on the train, paying a penalty. Barbara

Response:

I figured we wouldn’t qualify, but I thought I’d ask anyway. You’re right about the pass vs point-to-point, I can’t figure out why anyone would want a rail pass.  Trenitalia was really useful, to calculate fares. (Site seems to be down this weekend). Sorry, another question: what about the supplements?  Is the Trenitalia fare quote accurate, or will additional euros be tacked on at the ticket office? Thanks again for your very useful advice, Jennifer

Response:

> You’re right about the pass vs point-to-point, I can’t figure out why anyone > would want a rail pass.  Trenitalia was really useful, to calculate fares.

Ordinary train fares in Italy are already lower than European averages. Since several years, the railway administration is trying to have people paying at least the already low ordinary fare by pricing rail passes at amounts convenient only to people really travelling a lot. —

Response:

> I figured we wouldn’t qualify, but I thought I’d ask anyway. > You’re right about the pass vs point-to-point, I can’t figure out why anyone > would want a rail pass.  Trenitalia was really useful, to calculate fares. > (Site seems to be down this weekend). > Sorry, another question: what about the supplements?  Is the Trenitalia fare > quote accurate, or will additional euros be tacked on at the ticket office?

On the trenitalia site, the ticket price you see is the actual price you will pay. You’ll notice, for example, that the Eurostar trains cost more than the IC trains. If you have a rail pass, it covers IC trains but you would have to pay a supplement for an ES train. The supplement is equivalent to the price difference. Barbara

Response:

Well we used the Saver card for more travel than just this trip of course.  The point was if doing a lot of this sort of circle routing, which we did, the convenience of a pass for outweighs the hassle of getting the cheaper individual tickets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Personally I would get an Italy Flexirail Saver card, and probably the > first class version instead of the second class.  The Saver card is for > two or more people and price goes according to number of days of > travel.  More expensive than individual tickets if you just do a little > bit of second class travel, but real handy if you do circle trips.  For > instance, we did a one day circle of > Verona/Fornovo/Pisa/Pistoia/Porretto/Bologna/Verona. > The last time I checked the price of this pass, I found that it cost a > lot more than the cost of individual tickets unless you were taking very > long trips. I have a feeling that on the above circle route, you paid an > awful lot for the convenience. > I also don’t agree that it’s worth the cost to travel 1st class. I would > rather spend the money on a Eurostar train, whose 2nd class is more > comfortable than 1st class in the other trains. The only time I ride 1st > class is when I can’t find a seat in 2nd class, which is very rare. In > that case, I upgrade on the train, paying a penalty. > Barbara

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

>On the trenitalia site, the ticket price you see is the actual price you >will pay. You’ll notice, for example, that the Eurostar trains cost more >than the IC trains. If you have a rail pass, it covers IC trains but you >would have to pay a supplement for an ES train. The supplement is >equivalent to the price difference.

Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass? karen http://karen.webvis.net

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> Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does > that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass?

Exactly. And you have to reserve the place also, you cannot just show up and board. Often you can reserve a place for a train leaving in half an hour, but to be sure you’d better reserve the day before. —

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I thought some of the ES trains had non-reserved cars. Am I mistaken as usual? Of course, even if this is true, reserving makes sense. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does > that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass? > Exactly. And you have to reserve the place also, you cannot just show up > and board. Often you can reserve a place for a train leaving in half an > hour, but to be sure you’d better reserve the day before. > —

Response:

> I thought some of the ES trains had non-reserved cars. Am I mistaken as > usual? Of course, even if this is true, reserving makes sense.

This has changed some time ago. Now all places on ES trains should be reserved. —

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Thanks, Luca.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I thought some of the ES trains had non-reserved cars. Am I mistaken as > usual? Of course, even if this is true, reserving makes sense. > This has changed some time ago. Now all places on ES trains should be > reserved. > —

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We rode the Eurostar from Venizia to Verona back in February (just to see what it was like); we got our reservations about four hours ahead of time, however they were about the last available seats on the train – it was full. > Seeing that I’ll be using many ES trains in my travel in Italy, does > that mean I have to pay extra on top of showing the pass? > Exactly. And you have to reserve the place also, you cannot just show up > and board. Often you can reserve a place for a train leaving in half an > hour, but to be sure you’d better reserve the day before. > —

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

> Well we used the Saver card for more travel than just this trip of > course.  The point was if doing a lot of this sort of circle routing, > which we did, the convenience of a pass for outweighs the hassle of > getting the cheaper individual tickets.

Just for curiosity, how much did your pass cost? How many days of travel did it include? Was it for two people? I tried to do a little cost comparison for the benefit of r.t.e readers, but the Trenitalia site doesn’t give the cost of these passes. Barbara

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There are assorted passes and the price will vary a bit between vendors, but one I checked shows 4 days, second class, within Italy, for $163 per person for two or more people.  First class is $40 per person more. Three countries, five days, first class, is $304 per person.  Not too bad it seems – say you fly from the States to MUC, then rail down to the Bologna area.  That rail segment in itself is about a $100 one way trip. One thing I don’t recall about the second class tickets purchased at the station is how soon after stamping the tickets in the yellow machine you have to use them.  If you are doing circle trips such as we do: Verona/Fornovo/Aulla/Lucca/Pistoia/Portello/Bologna/Verona or Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen/Spittal/Villach/Udine/Treviso/Venizia/Verona then obviously you have to punch all the tickets in the yellow machine before you leave in the morning, since some of these are tight connections, less than 10 minutes, and you might not have time to run into a station and stamp a ticket for the next leg of the trip. I actually never tried to cost out one of these trips on the basis of individual tickets.  If you figure, say, that MUC/BLQ is worth $200 and two days of your pass, then you can do three days of circle tours for the other $100, or about $35 a day.  Can you do one of those trips for $35 2nd class? > Well we used the Saver card for more travel than just this trip of > course.  The point was if doing a lot of this sort of circle routing, > which we did, the convenience of a pass for outweighs the hassle of > getting the cheaper individual tickets. > Just for curiosity, how much did your pass cost? How many days of travel > did it include? Was it for two people? I tried to do a little cost > comparison for the benefit of r.t.e readers, but the Trenitalia site > doesn’t give the cost of these passes. > Barbara

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

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> There are assorted passes and the price will vary a bit between vendors, > but one I checked shows 4 days, second class, within Italy, for $163 per > person for two or more people.  First class is $40 per person more. > Three countries, five days, first class, is $304 per person.  Not too > bad it seems – say you fly from the States to MUC, then rail down to the > Bologna area.  That rail segment in itself is about a $100 one way trip.

I’m not sure what MUC is; if it is Munich, the major portion of the cost would be the German portion. From Bressanone (Brixen) to Bologna (approximately the Italian portion of the trip), the cost in 2nd class in an IR train is 13,22 euro. The three-country pass may pay off, as German rail is quite expensive. My original comment regarded the Italian rail passes, which I said were rarely good value for the typical tourist.   [snip] Addressing the example of the Italian pass, it would seem to be of value if the average cost of a day’s travel were over $40. > Verona/Fornovo/Aulla/Lucca/Pistoia/Portello/Bologna/Verona > or > Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen/Spittal/Villach/Udine/Treviso/Venizia/Verona > I actually never tried to cost out one of these trips on the basis of > individual tickets.  …  Can you do one of those trips for > $35 2nd class?

1st trip: It would take me a long time to calculate each individual leg, but the cost from Verona to Lucca (partially in EC service) is 20,15. The total cost of the circle would be approximately double that. From Udine to Venice (passing through Treviso) is 6.82 euro; from Venice to Verona (IC service) is 9.40. The rest of the itinerary seems to be outside Italy, where the Italian pass won’t be valid. On most of these 2 itineraries, only 2nd class service is available, so it wouldn’t make sense to get a 1st class pass. More to the point, both of these trips seem unrealistic to make in a single day. Would you actually take a train to Venice only to hop on another train to Verona without seeing Venice? To give some examples of typical tourist itineraries: Rome to Florence: 21.95 euro Florence to Venice: 18.75 euro Venice to Rome: 35.89 euro Rome to Naples: 16.53 These are all IC service trains, the most expensive for which pass-holders don’t have to pay a supplement. None of these trips hits the $40 ceiling. The total for these four days of travel is 93.12 euro, versus $163 for the pass. The convenience of not buying tickets is $50, increasing the cost of travel by more than 50%. Besides, on all of these routes I would prefer to travel Eurostar, which would mean that I would have to go to the ticket window even with the pass, in order to pay the supplement and reserve the seats. So the convenience would be nil. Barbara

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I’ve travelled by train all over Italy and have NEVER found that a pass was cheaper than buying tickets for each leg of my trip.  Even the senior pass would never have saved me money. But I’ve always traveled alone.  It’s quite possible that there are passes for two or more people that will pay off.  I suspect you’d have to cover substantial distances, though…..

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> I’ve travelled by train all over Italy and have NEVER found that a > pass was cheaper than buying tickets for each leg of my trip.  Even > the senior pass would never have saved me money.

Does a Carta Verde count as a pass in your eyes? In that case (which is my case), it has paid off after a round-trip Florence-Sicily. And is still valid for another half a year. R

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I’ve added my thoughts down thru the text, seemed easier. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There are assorted passes and the price will vary a bit between vendors, > but one I checked shows 4 days, second class, within Italy, for $163 per > person for two or more people.  First class is $40 per person more. > Three countries, five days, first class, is $304 per person.  Not too > bad it seems – say you fly from the States to MUC, then rail down to the > Bologna area.  That rail segment in itself is about a $100 one way trip. > I’m not sure what MUC is; if it is Munich, the major portion of the cost > would be the German portion. From Bressanone (Brixen) to Bologna > (approximately the Italian portion of the trip), the cost in 2nd class > in an IR train is 13,22 euro. The three-country pass may pay off, as > German rail is quite expensive. My original comment regarded the Italian > rail passes, which I said were rarely good value for the typical

Yes MUC is Munich, one has to get to Italy from the States somehow and MUC typically offers the cheapest air fares. Besides, it is a scenic ride down from MUC to Italy whether one goes straight via the Brenner pass route or, say, via Salzburg and Udine.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> tourist. >   [snip] > Addressing the example of the Italian pass, it would seem to be of value > if the average cost of a day’s travel were over $40. > Verona/Fornovo/Aulla/Lucca/Pistoia/Portello/Bologna/Verona > or > Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen/Spittal/Villach/Udine/Treviso/Venizia/Verona > I actually never tried to cost out one of these trips on the basis of > individual tickets.  …  Can you do one of those trips for > $35 2nd class? > 1st trip: It would take me a long time to calculate each individual leg, > but the cost from Verona to Lucca (partially in EC service) is 20,15. > The total cost of the circle would be approximately double that.

And it would also probably take a ticket agent a long time to calculate > From Udine to Venice (passing through Treviso) is 6.82 euro; from Venice > to Verona (IC service) is 9.40. The rest of the itinerary seems to be > outside Italy, where the Italian pass won’t be valid.

Bozen/Franzenfeste/Innichen is basically in Italy, but the comment is true as Innichen to Udine is mostly in Austria.   > On most of these 2 itineraries, only 2nd class service is available, so > it wouldn’t make sense to get a 1st class pass. > More to the point, both of these trips seem unrealistic to make in a > single day. Would you actually take a train to Venice only to hop on > another train to Verona without seeing Venice?

Oh, absolutely.  BTDT.  We consider these typical day circle trips. Very easily doable in a day if you make all the connections…… Obviously these are dependent on the trains keeping to the schedule, as some of the connection are 10 minutes or less.  Actually we took a separate Bozen/Verona/Venizia trip to see Venizia itself.  Regrettably it was so chilly and windy we only spent a few hours there before heading in the reverse direction back to the hotel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> To give some examples of typical tourist itineraries: > Rome to Florence: 21.95 euro > Florence to Venice: 18.75 euro > Venice to Rome: 35.89 euro > Rome to Naples: 16.53 > These are all IC service trains, the most expensive for which > pass-holders don’t have to pay a supplement. None of these trips hits > the $40 ceiling. The total for these four days of travel is 93.12 euro, > versus $163 for the pass. The convenience of not buying tickets is $50, > increasing the cost of travel by more than 50%. Besides, on all of these > routes I would prefer to travel Eurostar, which would mean that I would > have to go to the ticket window even with the pass, in order to pay the > supplement and reserve the seats. So the convenience would be nil. > Barbara

Umm, to take one of your examples, if I read my Orario correctly, we would actually do Firenze/Venezia as: Firenze/Pistoia/Poretta/Bologna/Verona/Venizia/Padova/Rovigo/Ferrara/Ravenn a/Granarolo Faentino/Faenza/Firenze I’m not actually sure now about the last little Ravenna/…/Firenze bit, may need to do some rerouting depending on those connections.  Remember you need to double your prices per day since a circle trip would at the least be as expensive as a regular RT.  So your total for the four days of travel is really $186+, or about $20 more than the pass.  Of course ‘R’ trains will be cheaper than the ‘IC’’s.   AFAIK, Italian rail does not offer a discount for RT versus OW (e.g. Amtrak used to offer a RT discount outside the NorthEast Corridor, not sure if they still do). Out of curiosity we took the Eurostar on a Venizia/Verona segment, didn’t really do that much for us other than it had working bathrooms (useful, that); generally we did fine on the ‘R’ trains. I doubt we would bother with the ‘ES’ again unless its schedule happened to be particularly convenient. — wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve added my thoughts down thru the text, seemed easier. > More to the point, both of these trips seem unrealistic to make in a > single day. Would you actually take a train to Venice only to hop on > another train to Verona without seeing Venice? > Oh, absolutely.  BTDT.  We consider these typical day circle trips. > Very easily doable in a day if you make all the connections…… > Obviously these are dependent on the trains keeping to the schedule, as > some of the connection are 10 minutes or less.  Actually we took a > separate Bozen/Verona/Venizia trip to see Venizia itself.  Regrettably > it was so chilly and windy we only spent a few hours there before > heading in the reverse direction back to the hotel. > To give some examples of typical tourist itineraries: > Rome to Florence: 21.95 euro > Florence to Venice: 18.75 euro > Venice to Rome: 35.89 euro > Rome to Naples: 16.53 > Umm, to take one of your examples, if I read my Orario correctly, we > would actually do Firenze/Venezia as: > Firenze/Pistoia/Poretta/Bologna/Verona/Venizia/Padova/Rovigo/Ferrara/Ravenn a/Granarolo > Faentino/Faenza/Firenze

If that’s your idea of a day’s outing in Italy, then it’s very different from that of most people, who would prefer to see Bologna, Verona, Padua, Ferrara, Ravenna and Venice rather than pass through them in a train. For someone like you, probably any sort of rail pass is a good buy. However, I still wouldn’t recommend a rail pass for the vast majority of tourists in Italy. Barbara

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Briefly this is how I’m travelling when I’m in Italy. I will be travelling from Paris to Venice (no more flights direct to Rome), Venice to Florence, Florence to Siena, Florence to Pisa, Florence to Rome, and then finally, Rome back to Paris. I calculated and found the Saver Pass (US$209) costs less than the individual tickets. But I’ve not taken into consideration the reservation costs. karen http://karen.webvis.net

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Here is my idea of a typical tourist visit to Italy, take 12 days as an example.  This is a straw man tour, but similar to one we actually did in February.  Requires a 5 day train pass. day 1 – train from MUC to base city – Verona and Bologna have the advantage as a base in that they are both on major north-south and east-west rail lines.  However it is my understanding that hotels in Bologna can be a bit pricey and hard to find (dunno if that is true).  I personally think Verona, Bozen and Merano offer a lot of hotel variety, but Merano is a bit off the beaten track so to speak.  Heh, I suppose the true Tifosi would stay in Modena. days 2-3-4 browse Verona day 5 browse Padova day 6 browse Venizia day 7 return to Venizia or browse Bozen or Brixen For days 5-7 I would buy individual rail tickets.  And of course one can substitute Bologna for Verona, Parma for Venizia, etc. By now the blisters should be so bad it is time to rest the feet, so days 8-11 can be circle tours to really see the area.  I’ve mentioned a few in Italy and one covering Italy and Austria, one could also do a variation through Switzerland – say: Verona/Milano/Chiasso/Bellinzona/Zurich/Basel/Brig/Milano/Verona or a trip south of Firenze perhaps.  Another interesting day or two might be spent taking a funicular from Merano.  Day 12 – off to departure airport.  And all of those interesting secondary rail routes indicated by the dots in the Orario just waiting to be take a funicular from Merano or Brixen the first day and spend the whole time wandering through the meadows, so you’re right that a rail pass wouldn’t do much good for that sort of tourist. I forgot to mention that most towns we toured had a good concert schedule, which made for a couple pleasant evenings. > Umm, to take one of your examples, if I read my Orario correctly, we > would actually do Firenze/Venezia as: > > Firenze/Pistoia/Poretta/Bologna/Verona/Venizia/Padova/Rovigo/Ferrara/Ravenn a/Granarolo > Faentino/Faenza/Firenze > If that’s your idea of a day’s outing in Italy, then it’s very different > from that of most people, who would prefer to see Bologna, Verona, > Padua, Ferrara, Ravenna and Venice rather than pass through them

Well, I would stop in Pistoia to see it’s historic engine display. in a > train. For someone like you, probably any sort of rail pass is a good > buy. However, I still wouldn’t recommend a rail pass for the vast > majority of tourists in Italy. > Barbara

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

Response:

> Briefly this is how I’m travelling when I’m in Italy. > I will be travelling from Paris to Venice (no more flights direct to > Rome), Venice to Florence, Florence to Siena, Florence to Pisa, > Florence to Rome, and then finally, Rome back to Paris. > I calculated and found the Saver Pass (US$209) costs less than the > individual tickets. But I’ve not taken into consideration the > reservation costs.

This thread suffers from a bit of confusion: generally speaking, if you travel always within Italy a pass woun’t pay itself unless you travel really a lot. But if you add a couple of international legs, as in the itinerary above, maybe some pass may be cheaper. —

Response:

> Briefly this is how I’m travelling when I’m in Italy. > I will be travelling from Paris to Venice (no more flights direct to > Rome), Venice to Florence, Florence to Siena, Florence to Pisa, > Florence to Rome, and then finally, Rome back to Paris.

Taking a bus from Florence to Siena is more convenient. The train leaves you outside the walls, the bus inside close to the center. The bus station in Florence is across the street from the main train station. Marianne

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new > to me. > I was in Venice for the first time in April a few years ago, and I > spent eleven full days there. It seemed like just the right amount > of time to me. I had time to see the major sights (and even go > back to see things I’d missed), time to slowly enjoy an expensive > drink at Piazza San Marco and watch the world go by, time to > wander around outside the normal tourist areas, time to go out > to Murano and Burano. I had time to notice all the lion sculptures, > time to see things like the Naval Museum – fascinating, and > probably often missed. > I got to know which Venetian artists I liked, and then I had time to > go find see of their works in the city – in musuems, churches, etc. > I had considered doing a day trip to Padova, but found I didn’t > want to break the wonderful no-car spell of Venice. I’ll see Padova > on some future trip. > I know others who travel in a very different style from my own, > who would find 10 days to be much too long. But I enjoyed every > minute. > Jeri

Exactly the type of experience I am hoping to have. I don’t like to feel rushed when I travel & take time to get a real feel for a place beyond the tourist zones. Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In florence try to visit www.villagiulia.net >> >I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in >Rome, >> >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >> >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >> >sun/beach time, so I have been >> >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is >much >> >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) >and >> >maybe not warm >> >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >> >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. >> >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. >> >TIA >> >Dennis >> There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. >> You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either >> that or via Athens. >> If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. >> Fred > Dennis, why do a thousand miles, if beautiful regions are that near. The

Adriatic coast has lots > of great beaches. The best beaches, weather (in May) and cheapest prices would be in the > south of Italy Try Calabria, the scenery, beaches, hospitality, the food

and history trails will > make it an unforgettable holiday. And most likely few of your friends have ever been to this > beautiful place. > Richard

I am also looking into Sicily, thanks for the tip on Calabria. Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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> I am also looking into Sicily, thanks for the tip on Calabria. > Dennis

The "Trulli" District near Bari/Alberobello is totally unique on the "other side" of Italy – the south-eastern part of the "boot". Now unfortunately pretty tourised. But it is still an unusual place to see. They are ancient unusual conical houses all clustered together spread over the hills. They only exist here so are worth a trip to see if you are wanting to wander around Italy.  In fact going down the eastern side of Italy does take you out of the more typical tourist routes and there is some stunning highway construction in this area as it traverses deep valleys. Taoromina is the highlight of eastern Sicily IMHO, though again touristed but who can ever duplicate the views from that site. Going out to the Lipari Islands looks like it would be worth it too. Tracking down Sicilian dessert wines, like Marsala, etc can make a good theme to travels in Sicily. Petty street crime can and does happen in the large Sicilian cities so beware. Watch out for the "fake" motorcycle accident if you are driving on narrow streets. Keep doors locked and valuables out of easy reach, even in the car.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new > to me. > I was in Venice for the first time in April a few years ago, and I > spent eleven full days there. It seemed like just the right amount > of time to me. I had time to see the major sights (and even go > back to see things I’d missed), time to slowly enjoy an expensive > drink at Piazza San Marco and watch the world go by, time to > wander around outside the normal tourist areas, time to go out > to Murano and Burano. I had time to notice all the lion sculptures, > time to see things like the Naval Museum – fascinating, and > probably often missed. > I got to know which Venetian artists I liked, and then I had time to > go find see of their works in the city – in musuems, churches, etc. > I had considered doing a day trip to Padova, but found I didn’t > want to break the wonderful no-car spell of Venice. I’ll see Padova > on some future trip. > I know others who travel in a very different style from my own, > who would find 10 days to be much too long. But I enjoyed every > minute.

You’re my kind of traveler. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will > arrive in >> Rome, spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in >> Venice. > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. I would make it max. 5. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new to > me. > I think an ideal amount of time in Venice would be about two > weeks. If I could afford it I’d love to take off for two weeks in > Venice tomorrow. > On the other hand, Florence and Rome also have wonderful things > to offer, and for my taste the OP’s balance is wrong; as much as > I love Venice, for most people on a first trip to Italy, spending > more time there than in Rome doesn’t make sense. For a first trip > of 24 days total in those three places, I’d probably recommend > something more like two weeks in Rome, and five days each in > Florence and Venice. However it’s important to realize that > that’s just *my* taste and preference. Others have different > interests and what’s best for you or for me isn’t necessarily > best for everyone.

Well, I am a little concerned that 10 days may be too long as well, but I got a pretty good deal on an apartment there and decided to go for it. I figure if it is too long we can take a day trip or two from there. Since we have a total of  7 weeks, I figured that if we want to return to Rome or Florence we can. Worst case, we can shorten our stay in Veice and head off to other places as the last half of our itinerary is completely open. I think there is a penalty if we check out early, but hey I’m not going to let than dictate my travel plans. My current thought is to take a ferry overnight from Venice to Corfu and then do some Greek Island hopping for that last half of the trip.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In florence try to visit www.villagiulia.net > >I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in >Rome, > >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > >sun/beach time, so I have been > >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is >much > >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) >and > >maybe not warm > >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > >TIA > >Dennis > There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. > You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either > that or via Athens. > If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. > Fred

Dennis, why do a thousand miles, if beautiful regions are that near. The Adriatic coast has lots of great beaches. The best beaches, weather (in May) and cheapest prices would be in the south of Italy Try Calabria, the scenery, beaches, hospitality, the food and history trails will make it an unforgettable holiday. And most likely few of your friends have ever been to this beautiful place. Richard

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> > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new > to me.

I was in Venice for the first time in April a few years ago, and I spent eleven full days there. It seemed like just the right amount of time to me. I had time to see the major sights (and even go back to see things I’d missed), time to slowly enjoy an expensive drink at Piazza San Marco and watch the world go by, time to wander around outside the normal tourist areas, time to go out to Murano and Burano. I had time to notice all the lion sculptures, time to see things like the Naval Museum – fascinating, and probably often missed. I got to know which Venetian artists I liked, and then I had time to go find see of their works in the city – in musuems, churches, etc. I had considered doing a day trip to Padova, but found I didn’t want to break the wonderful no-car spell of Venice. I’ll see Padova on some future trip. I know others who travel in a very different style from my own, who would find 10 days to be much too long. But I enjoyed every minute. Jeri

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> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice.

10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. I would make it max. 5. The famous part is not that big, and around Venice you find industry and huge farms. There is (at least was) a ferry from Venice to Greece. Could be nice. Greece is best option for this time of the year, if you want some sun+fun+swim and strange wine with resin in it. Island hopping is well organized, end in Athens and look at some old stones for a day or two, then fly to Milan. Be shure to have at least one day there to climb the dome and buy some overpriced designer clothing made in China. Walter

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>>There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. >You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either >that or via Athens. >The Lido beach will likely be distinctly chilly in April/May. >Barbara

You should see it in December. It’s downright freezing. Pretty nice in July, though. Fred

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> IMO 10 days in Venice may be too long

10 days is way too long for Venice IMO, just got back myself and spent 4 days, could have used 5 but certainly not 10 JR Out

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>> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in > Rome, spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in > Venice. > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. I would make it max. 5.

Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new to me. I think an ideal amount of time in Venice would be about two weeks. If I could afford it I’d love to take off for two weeks in Venice tomorrow. On the other hand, Florence and Rome also have wonderful things to offer, and for my taste the OP’s balance is wrong; as much as I love Venice, for most people on a first trip to Italy, spending more time there than in Rome doesn’t make sense. For a first trip of 24 days total in those three places, I’d probably recommend something more like two weeks in Rome, and five days each in Florence and Venice. However it’s important to realize that that’s just *my* taste and preference. Others have different interests and what’s best for you or for me isn’t necessarily best for everyone. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

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In florence try to visit www.villagiulia.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >sun/beach time, so I have been >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and >maybe not warm >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. >TIA >Dennis > There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. > You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either > that or via Athens. > If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. > Fred

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >sun/beach time, so I have been >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and >maybe not warm >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. > You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either > that or via Athens.

The Lido beach will likely be distinctly chilly in April/May. Barbara

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > > sun/beach time, so I have been > > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is > much > > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) > and > > maybe not warm > > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > From Venice Croatia is close and cheaper than Greece. Spectacular too! > I doubt that it’s warm enough for the beach in May.

And the beaches in Croatia really aren’t what one would expect for a "beach holiday". Except in the far south they tend to be narrow and stony. Hardly a grain of sand to be seen. The water’s usually fantastically clean though. The Croatian coastline is spectacular. Personally If I was looking for sun/sand I’d go for a Greek trip -warmer at that time of year and fantastic beaches. Tim.

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Greek cruise ships leave from Venice – that may provide you a great opportunity to combine it all with not too much effort getting to and fro down where the sun may be shining more. Sleep while you cover distance and see the sights and get returned several days later back to Italy. Look up "Chandris" or "Costa" and see what they have leaving from Venice. Don’t book an "American" cruise line, but use the European ones instead – cheaper and more interesting. Or take some of the back passes from Italy into Switzerland. The Maloja and the Splugen are pretty spectacular. You could makes a loop and the wild flowers should give you a great show. Head up to San Moritz over those passes and then back to Italy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >sun/beach time, so I have been >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and >maybe not warm >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. >TIA >Dennis

There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either that or via Athens. If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. Fred

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> Try our accomodation > In may you can have bath in Siciliy.

Better tell that to all those smelly French.

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> Try our accomodation > In may you can have bath in Siciliy. > Better tell that to all those smelly French.

) Sorry, I did mean : In Sicily you can go in May to the seaside. Ciao Emanuele Fazio www.siciliacasevacanza.com

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> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

IMO 10 days in Venice may be too long – If your hotel is on the Lido you may get some sun/beach there depending on the weather www.weather.com has some good historical data. You could try Tunisia for some sun. Or there are lots of cruises that start from Venice, if you want to sample a variety of places to pick your next long stay places.

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Greece is wonderful in May, go there! Crete, Rhodos, Paros… Also continental Greece would be great, surely better than Italy or Spain if you look for beautiful sea and weather. Carlo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

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> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May.

From Venice Croatia is close and cheaper than Greece. Spectacular too! — DFM

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> We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm

Try our accomodation In may you can have bath in Siciliy. www.siciliacasevacanza.com See you soon Emanuele

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is > much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) > and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > From Venice Croatia is close and cheaper than Greece. Spectacular too!

I doubt that it’s warm enough for the beach in May. Barbara

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I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some sun/beach time, so I have been thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and maybe not warm enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? Our return flight is from Milan in late May. Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. TIA Dennis

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> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

In Sicily the weather is usually warm in May http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/en/intforrent.html — Luigi www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com

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I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some sun/beach time, so I have been thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and maybe not warm enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? Our return flight is from Milan in late May. Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. TIA Dennis

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> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

In Sicily the weather is usually warm in May http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/en/intforrent.html — Luigi www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com

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Greece is wonderful in May, go there! Crete, Rhodos, Paros… Also continental Greece would be great, surely better than Italy or Spain if you look for beautiful sea and weather. Carlo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

Response:

> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May.

From Venice Croatia is close and cheaper than Greece. Spectacular too! — DFM

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> We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm

Try our accomodation In may you can have bath in Siciliy. www.siciliacasevacanza.com See you soon Emanuele

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is > much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) > and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > From Venice Croatia is close and cheaper than Greece. Spectacular too!

I doubt that it’s warm enough for the beach in May. Barbara

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > > sun/beach time, so I have been > > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is > much > > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) > and > > maybe not warm > > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > From Venice Croatia is close and cheaper than Greece. Spectacular too! > I doubt that it’s warm enough for the beach in May.

And the beaches in Croatia really aren’t what one would expect for a "beach holiday". Except in the far south they tend to be narrow and stony. Hardly a grain of sand to be seen. The water’s usually fantastically clean though. The Croatian coastline is spectacular. Personally If I was looking for sun/sand I’d go for a Greek trip -warmer at that time of year and fantastic beaches. Tim.

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> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

IMO 10 days in Venice may be too long – If your hotel is on the Lido you may get some sun/beach there depending on the weather www.weather.com has some good historical data. You could try Tunisia for some sun. Or there are lots of cruises that start from Venice, if you want to sample a variety of places to pick your next long stay places.

Response:

> Try our accomodation > In may you can have bath in Siciliy.

Better tell that to all those smelly French.

Response:

> Try our accomodation > In may you can have bath in Siciliy. > Better tell that to all those smelly French.

) Sorry, I did mean : In Sicily you can go in May to the seaside. Ciao Emanuele Fazio www.siciliacasevacanza.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >sun/beach time, so I have been >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and >maybe not warm >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. >TIA >Dennis

There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either that or via Athens. If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. Fred

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In florence try to visit www.villagiulia.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >sun/beach time, so I have been >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and >maybe not warm >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. >TIA >Dennis > There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. > You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either > that or via Athens. > If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. > Fred

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >sun/beach time, so I have been >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and >maybe not warm >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. > You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either > that or via Athens.

The Lido beach will likely be distinctly chilly in April/May. Barbara

Response:

Greek cruise ships leave from Venice – that may provide you a great opportunity to combine it all with not too much effort getting to and fro down where the sun may be shining more. Sleep while you cover distance and see the sights and get returned several days later back to Italy. Look up "Chandris" or "Costa" and see what they have leaving from Venice. Don’t book an "American" cruise line, but use the European ones instead – cheaper and more interesting. Or take some of the back passes from Italy into Switzerland. The Maloja and the Splugen are pretty spectacular. You could makes a loop and the wild flowers should give you a great show. Head up to San Moritz over those passes and then back to Italy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > sun/beach time, so I have been > thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is much > closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) and > maybe not warm > enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > TIA > Dennis

Response:

> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in Rome, > spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice.

10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. I would make it max. 5. The famous part is not that big, and around Venice you find industry and huge farms. There is (at least was) a ferry from Venice to Greece. Could be nice. Greece is best option for this time of the year, if you want some sun+fun+swim and strange wine with resin in it. Island hopping is well organized, end in Athens and look at some old stones for a day or two, then fly to Milan. Be shure to have at least one day there to climb the dome and buy some overpriced designer clothing made in China. Walter

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>>There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. >You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either >that or via Athens. >The Lido beach will likely be distinctly chilly in April/May. >Barbara

You should see it in December. It’s downright freezing. Pretty nice in July, though. Fred

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> IMO 10 days in Venice may be too long

10 days is way too long for Venice IMO, just got back myself and spent 4 days, could have used 5 but certainly not 10 JR Out

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>> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in > Rome, spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in > Venice. > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. I would make it max. 5.

Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new to me. I think an ideal amount of time in Venice would be about two weeks. If I could afford it I’d love to take off for two weeks in Venice tomorrow. On the other hand, Florence and Rome also have wonderful things to offer, and for my taste the OP’s balance is wrong; as much as I love Venice, for most people on a first trip to Italy, spending more time there than in Rome doesn’t make sense. For a first trip of 24 days total in those three places, I’d probably recommend something more like two weeks in Rome, and five days each in Florence and Venice. However it’s important to realize that that’s just *my* taste and preference. Others have different interests and what’s best for you or for me isn’t necessarily best for everyone. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will > arrive in >> Rome, spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in >> Venice. > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. I would make it max. 5. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new to > me. > I think an ideal amount of time in Venice would be about two > weeks. If I could afford it I’d love to take off for two weeks in > Venice tomorrow. > On the other hand, Florence and Rome also have wonderful things > to offer, and for my taste the OP’s balance is wrong; as much as > I love Venice, for most people on a first trip to Italy, spending > more time there than in Rome doesn’t make sense. For a first trip > of 24 days total in those three places, I’d probably recommend > something more like two weeks in Rome, and five days each in > Florence and Venice. However it’s important to realize that > that’s just *my* taste and preference. Others have different > interests and what’s best for you or for me isn’t necessarily > best for everyone.

Well, I am a little concerned that 10 days may be too long as well, but I got a pretty good deal on an apartment there and decided to go for it. I figure if it is too long we can take a day trip or two from there. Since we have a total of  7 weeks, I figured that if we want to return to Rome or Florence we can. Worst case, we can shorten our stay in Veice and head off to other places as the last half of our itinerary is completely open. I think there is a penalty if we check out early, but hey I’m not going to let than dictate my travel plans. My current thought is to take a ferry overnight from Venice to Corfu and then do some Greek Island hopping for that last half of the trip.

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> > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new > to me.

I was in Venice for the first time in April a few years ago, and I spent eleven full days there. It seemed like just the right amount of time to me. I had time to see the major sights (and even go back to see things I’d missed), time to slowly enjoy an expensive drink at Piazza San Marco and watch the world go by, time to wander around outside the normal tourist areas, time to go out to Murano and Burano. I had time to notice all the lion sculptures, time to see things like the Naval Museum – fascinating, and probably often missed. I got to know which Venetian artists I liked, and then I had time to go find see of their works in the city – in musuems, churches, etc. I had considered doing a day trip to Padova, but found I didn’t want to break the wonderful no-car spell of Venice. I’ll see Padova on some future trip. I know others who travel in a very different style from my own, who would find 10 days to be much too long. But I enjoyed every minute. Jeri

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In florence try to visit www.villagiulia.net > >I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in >Rome, > >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, > >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some > >sun/beach time, so I have been > >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is >much > >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) >and > >maybe not warm > >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? > >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. > >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. > >TIA > >Dennis > There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. > You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either > that or via Athens. > If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. > Fred

Dennis, why do a thousand miles, if beautiful regions are that near. The Adriatic coast has lots of great beaches. The best beaches, weather (in May) and cheapest prices would be in the south of Italy Try Calabria, the scenery, beaches, hospitality, the food and history trails will make it an unforgettable holiday. And most likely few of your friends have ever been to this beautiful place. Richard

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new > to me. > I was in Venice for the first time in April a few years ago, and I > spent eleven full days there. It seemed like just the right amount > of time to me. I had time to see the major sights (and even go > back to see things I’d missed), time to slowly enjoy an expensive > drink at Piazza San Marco and watch the world go by, time to > wander around outside the normal tourist areas, time to go out > to Murano and Burano. I had time to notice all the lion sculptures, > time to see things like the Naval Museum – fascinating, and > probably often missed. > I got to know which Venetian artists I liked, and then I had time to > go find see of their works in the city – in musuems, churches, etc. > I had considered doing a day trip to Padova, but found I didn’t > want to break the wonderful no-car spell of Venice. I’ll see Padova > on some future trip. > I know others who travel in a very different style from my own, > who would find 10 days to be much too long. But I enjoyed every > minute.

You’re my kind of traveler. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > 10 days in Venice are IMHO too long. > Each to his own, but I couldn’t disagree more. I love Venice. > I’ve been there about half a dozen times. Despite having been > there multiple times, on my last trip there (last April) I spent > a week, and saw and did many wonderful things that were new > to me. > I was in Venice for the first time in April a few years ago, and I > spent eleven full days there. It seemed like just the right amount > of time to me. I had time to see the major sights (and even go > back to see things I’d missed), time to slowly enjoy an expensive > drink at Piazza San Marco and watch the world go by, time to > wander around outside the normal tourist areas, time to go out > to Murano and Burano. I had time to notice all the lion sculptures, > time to see things like the Naval Museum – fascinating, and > probably often missed. > I got to know which Venetian artists I liked, and then I had time to > go find see of their works in the city – in musuems, churches, etc. > I had considered doing a day trip to Padova, but found I didn’t > want to break the wonderful no-car spell of Venice. I’ll see Padova > on some future trip. > I know others who travel in a very different style from my own, > who would find 10 days to be much too long. But I enjoyed every > minute. > Jeri

Exactly the type of experience I am hoping to have. I don’t like to feel rushed when I travel & take time to get a real feel for a place beyond the tourist zones. Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In florence try to visit www.villagiulia.net >> >I have a seven week vacation planned in April/May. We will arrive in >Rome, >> >spend a week in Rome, a week  in Florence and 10 days in Venice. Then, >> >our options are open for the next 3 weeks. We would like to get some >> >sun/beach time, so I have been >> >thinking of heading down to the Greek Islands – although the Riviera is >much >> >closer, I am concerned that the prices will be very high (comparitively) >and >> >maybe not warm >> >enough yet in May. Maybe Spain would be a better bet? >> >Our return flight is from Milan in late May. >> >Opinions?. To reply direct remove the nospam. >> >TIA >> >Dennis >> There is the beach on Lido at Venice, but for cheap beaches, try Crete. >> You may be able to fly direct from Venice and back to Milan. Either >> that or via Athens. >> If 10 days is too long in Venice, take a trip to Verona. >> Fred > Dennis, why do a thousand miles, if beautiful regions are that near. The

Adriatic coast has lots > of great beaches. The best beaches, weather (in May) and cheapest prices would be in the > south of Italy Try Calabria, the scenery, beaches, hospitality, the food

and history trails will > make it an unforgettable holiday. And most likely few of your friends have ever been to this > beautiful place. > Richard

I am also looking into Sicily, thanks for the tip on Calabria. Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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> I am also looking into Sicily, thanks for the tip on Calabria. > Dennis

The "Trulli" District near Bari/Alberobello is totally unique on the "other side" of Italy – the south-eastern part of the "boot". Now unfortunately pretty tourised. But it is still an unusual place to see. They are ancient unusual conical houses all clustered together spread over the hills. They only exist here so are worth a trip to see if you are wanting to wander around Italy.  In fact going down the eastern side of Italy does take you out of the more typical tourist routes and there is some stunning highway construction in this area as it traverses deep valleys. Taoromina is the highlight of eastern Sicily IMHO, though again touristed but who can ever duplicate the views from that site. Going out to the Lipari Islands looks like it would be worth it too. Tracking down Sicilian dessert wines, like Marsala, etc can make a good theme to travels in Sicily. Petty street crime can and does happen in the large Sicilian cities so beware. Watch out for the "fake" motorcycle accident if you are driving on narrow streets. Keep doors locked and valuables out of easy reach, even in the car.

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Question:

        we will be staying in florence for a week and would like to take a few days in bologna somewhere in the middle. we’d like to take a train or a bus. which is better and how long will each take? also, is it best to buy tickets for the bus/train from the US or wait until we are in italy to purchase them? thank you in advance! allix —     8>               http://www.sonic.net/~almcepud/               <8         H   "It was the greatest of the imperfect ventriloquist acts:   H         "      when his lips moved, her body sang."  –Tom Robbins      "    

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>       we will be staying in florence for a week and would like to take a > few days in bologna somewhere in the middle. we’d like to take a train or > a bus. which is better and how long will each take? also, is it best > to buy tickets for the bus/train from the US or wait until we are in > italy to purchase them? thank you in advance!

The train is the only solution. It is relatively expensive for such a short journey as almost all services are fast trains (1 hour), but you haven’t a bus choice. Services are very frequent (at least hourly, often two or three trains per hour). But the ticket a day or two in advance – any travel agency is as good as the station ticket office (no agency markup).

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>       we will be staying in florence for a week and would like to take a > few days in bologna somewhere in the middle. we’d like to take a train or > a bus. which is better and how long will each take? also, is it best > to buy tickets for the bus/train from the US or wait until we are in > italy to purchase them? thank you in advance!

The train is the only solution. It is relatively expensive for such a short journey as almost all services are fast trains (1 hour), but you haven’t a bus choice. Services are very frequent (at least hourly, often two or three trains per hour). Buy the ticket a day or two in advance – any travel agency is as good as the station ticket office (no agency markup).

Response:

>         we will be staying in florence for a week and would like to take a > few days in bologna somewhere in the middle. we’d like to take a train or > a bus. which is better and how long will each take? also, is it best > to buy tickets for the bus/train from the US or wait until we are in > italy to purchase them? thank you in advance! > allix

AFAIK there is no bus service. The trains are good and plentiful; not expensive either. Sensible not to use a car. I don’t know about the city driving experience (probably as dreadful as anywhere else) but if you have the chance of avoiding the Bologna-Firenze motorway, take it at all costs. This road is sheer hell. RC — Support bacteria-they

Question:

> Actual expenses in Italy in the Spring of 2001 > The lodging is so high because m’girfriend > demanded better accommodations than > I would have accepted. > Auto Trans. Lodge Food Admits Misc. Total > $87   $12   $65    $30  $9     $5    $133

I gather that’s per day. It doesn’t add up. Is it per person per day or for both of you? To the original poster, CDW is required in Italy. That adds to the cost. There may also be limitations on where you can drive–but these don’t apply to your itinerary. Yes, it’s more expensive to rent a car in Italy. Marianne

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I was researching renting a car for 10 day this coming May in Tuscany. Hertz gave me the best price for less than $400 for their economy class car. A four door car? I would think it is not an economy class car? Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi,  I plan on visiting Italy this summer and will rent a car for 12 days as I > drive from Florence to Rome, stoping in Toscana and the home town of my > grandparents.  AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door > car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?  In the good old USA I would > pay less than $200 per week for such a car, but perhaps Europe and Italy are > must more expensive. > Thanks for you help and any suggestions on geting a good car rental. > For what it is worth, by watching arifares I managed to get a ticket for $300 > less than the best price my travel agent could find.

Response:

>>AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door >car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable? > It would be polite if you had indicated that your e-mail adrress is invalid.

Why does it matter?  The question was posted here, and should be answered here. — DGS

Response:

>Hi,  I plan on visiting Italy this summer and will rent a car for 12 days as I >drive from Florence to Rome, stoping in Toscana and the home town of my >grandparents.  AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door >car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?

Manual or automatic transmission?  Restricting yourself to cars with automatic transmissions will reduce availability and increase price significantly in many parts of the world. — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Response:

> > Actual expenses in Italy in the Spring of 2001 > The lodging is so high because m’girfriend > demanded better accommodations than > I would have accepted. > Auto Trans. Lodge Food Admits Misc. Total > $87   $12   $65    $30  $9     $5    $133 > I gather that’s per day.

Very good. > It doesn’t add up.

That’s right. Perhaps something was lost in the transcription. The total should be $121. > for both of you?

I intended, but obviously neglected, to so say.       A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco     http://geocities.com/dancefest/  http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103   IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

> AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door >car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?

Try again.  I find economy rates on AutoEurope for 12 days in August 2003 at under $500.  You may have asked for an expensive car by mistake. It would be polite if you had indicated that your e-mail adrress is invalid. Larry in Berkeley, California (seaotter 6 at a o l dot c o m)(no spaces in address)

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Actual expenses in Italy in the Spring of 2001 The lodging is so high because m’girfriend demanded better accommodations than I would have accepted. Auto Trans. Lodge Food Admits Misc. Total $87   $12   $65    $30  $9     $5    $133         A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco     http://geocities.com/dancefest/  http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103   IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

Hi,  I plan on visiting Italy this summer and will rent a car for 12 days as I drive from Florence to Rome, stoping in Toscana and the home town of my grandparents.  AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?  In the good old USA I would pay less than $200 per week for such a car, but perhaps Europe and Italy are must more expensive. Thanks for you help and any suggestions on geting a good car rental. For what it is worth, by watching arifares I managed to get a ticket for $300 less than the best price my travel agent could find.  

Response:

Hi,  I plan on visiting Italy this summer and will rent a car for 12 days as I drive from Florence to Rome, stoping in Toscana and the home town of my grandparents.  AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?  In the good old USA I would pay less than $200 per week for such a car, but perhaps Europe and Italy are must more expensive. Thanks for you help and any suggestions on geting a good car rental. For what it is worth, by watching arifares I managed to get a ticket for $300 less than the best price my travel agent could find.  

Response:

> AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door >car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?

Try again.  I find economy rates on AutoEurope for 12 days in August 2003 at under $500.  You may have asked for an expensive car by mistake. It would be polite if you had indicated that your e-mail adrress is invalid. Larry in Berkeley, California (seaotter 6 at a o l dot c o m)(no spaces in address)

Response:

Actual expenses in Italy in the Spring of 2001 The lodging is so high because m’girfriend demanded better accommodations than I would have accepted. Auto Trans. Lodge Food Admits Misc. Total $87   $12   $65    $30  $9     $5    $133         A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco     http://geocities.com/dancefest/  http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103   IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

> Actual expenses in Italy in the Spring of 2001 > The lodging is so high because m’girfriend > demanded better accommodations than > I would have accepted. > Auto Trans. Lodge Food Admits Misc. Total > $87   $12   $65    $30  $9     $5    $133

I gather that’s per day. It doesn’t add up. Is it per person per day or for both of you? To the original poster, CDW is required in Italy. That adds to the cost. There may also be limitations on where you can drive–but these don’t apply to your itinerary. Yes, it’s more expensive to rent a car in Italy. Marianne

Response:

I was researching renting a car for 10 day this coming May in Tuscany. Hertz gave me the best price for less than $400 for their economy class car. A four door car? I would think it is not an economy class car? Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi,  I plan on visiting Italy this summer and will rent a car for 12 days as I > drive from Florence to Rome, stoping in Toscana and the home town of my > grandparents.  AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door > car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?  In the good old USA I would > pay less than $200 per week for such a car, but perhaps Europe and Italy are > must more expensive. > Thanks for you help and any suggestions on geting a good car rental. > For what it is worth, by watching arifares I managed to get a ticket for $300 > less than the best price my travel agent could find.

Response:

>>AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door >car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable? > It would be polite if you had indicated that your e-mail adrress is invalid.

Why does it matter?  The question was posted here, and should be answered here. — DGS

Response:

>Hi,  I plan on visiting Italy this summer and will rent a car for 12 days as I >drive from Florence to Rome, stoping in Toscana and the home town of my >grandparents.  AutoEurope has quoted me a price of $840 for an economy 4 door >car like an Opel wagon.  Is this price reasonable?

Manual or automatic transmission?  Restricting yourself to cars with automatic transmissions will reduce availability and increase price significantly in many parts of the world. — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Response:

> > Actual expenses in Italy in the Spring of 2001 > The lodging is so high because m’girfriend > demanded better accommodations than > I would have accepted. > Auto Trans. Lodge Food Admits Misc. Total > $87   $12   $65    $30  $9     $5    $133 > I gather that’s per day.

Very good. > It doesn’t add up.

That’s right. Perhaps something was lost in the transcription. The total should be $121. > for both of you?

I intended, but obviously neglected, to so say.       A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco     http://geocities.com/dancefest/  http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103   IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

Question:

For Florence, have a look at: http://users.pandora.be/bernard/Olivo/Mar_Appartamento_Il_Moro_eng.htm

Response:

>I’d like to alternate between urban and rural – the current > tentative plan is 5 days or so in Rome…

If Rome does become to much for you take a day off and head to Frascati, a small town about 24km south of the capital, for a nice lunch and a stroll afterwards. You can get to Frascati in 30 mins by catching a train from Termini Train station. Loz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > > Boy, am I getting beaten up on my posting about Rome and > Florence! > Not me. I’m not the one planning a vacation. I replied to your > message to present an opposite point of view. It’s the OP to whom > you want to direct that comment, and I echo it too. > I’ve traveled in Italy 15 times, including two trips last year. > On last year’s first trip, in April, we spent seven days in > Venice, three in Lucca, four in Florence, five in Siena, and four > in Rome. This last trip, just a month ago, we spent nine days in > Rome and five in Capri. So you can see that I like the smaller > quieter places as well as the big cities. But as much as I love > Capri, I think I’d quickly get bored living there. I’d love to > live in Rome. > — > Ken Blake > Please reply to the newsgroup > Thanks everybody for your replies. I do plan on a mix of country and city > travel. I’d like to alternate between urban and rural – the current > tentative > plan is 5 days or so in Rome, a few days in Capri, down to Sicily to > Taormina and Siracusa. Spend probably 10 days total on Sicily. > Up to Florence for a week, then Venice for a week. In between Florence > and Venice I am open for suggestions. > I have a total of 6 weeks to spend there. > Any further comments/suggestions welcome. > -Dennis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > <snip> >> Boy, am I getting beaten up on my posting about Rome and > Florence! > Not me. I’m not the one planning a vacation. I replied to your > message to present an opposite point of view. It’s the OP to whom > you want to direct that comment, and I echo it too. > I’ve traveled in Italy 15 times, including two trips last year. > On last year’s first trip, in April, we spent seven days in > Venice, three in Lucca, four in Florence, five in Siena, and four > in Rome. This last trip, just a month ago, we spent nine days in > Rome and five in Capri. So you can see that I like the smaller > quieter places as well as the big cities. But as much as I love > Capri, I think I’d quickly get bored living there. I’d love to > live in Rome. > — > Ken Blake > Please reply to the newsgroup > Thanks everybody for your replies. I do plan on a mix of country and > city travel. I’d like to alternate between urban and rural – the > current tentative > plan is 5 days or so in Rome, a few days in Capri, down to Sicily to > Taormina and Siracusa. Spend probably 10 days total on Sicily. > Up to Florence for a week, then Venice for a week. In between Florence > and Venice I am open for suggestions. > I have a total of 6 weeks to spend there. > Any further comments/suggestions welcome.

You are very fortunate to have six weeks. Your plan looks great to me. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Boy, am I getting beaten up on my posting about Rome and > Florence! > Not me. I’m not the one planning a vacation. I replied to your > message to present an opposite point of view. It’s the OP to whom > you want to direct that comment, and I echo it too. > I’ve traveled in Italy 15 times, including two trips last year. > On last year’s first trip, in April, we spent seven days in > Venice, three in Lucca, four in Florence, five in Siena, and four > in Rome. This last trip, just a month ago, we spent nine days in > Rome and five in Capri. So you can see that I like the smaller > quieter places as well as the big cities. But as much as I love > Capri, I think I’d quickly get bored living there. I’d love to > live in Rome. > — > Ken Blake > Please reply to the newsgroup

Thanks everybody for your replies. I do plan on a mix of country and city travel. I’d like to alternate between urban and rural – the current tentative plan is 5 days or so in Rome, a few days in Capri, down to Sicily to Taormina and Siracusa. Spend probably 10 days total on Sicily. Up to Florence for a week, then Venice for a week. In between Florence and Venice I am open for suggestions. I have a total of 6 weeks to spend there. Any further comments/suggestions welcome. -Dennis

Response:

> Boy, am I getting beaten up on my posting about Rome and

Florence! Sorry, I didn’t mean to beat you up, but rather to point out an opposing view for the OP. The OP needs to decide for himself what to do and where to go, and I wanted him to have both sides to choose from. Neither of our views is necessarily right for everyone. We all have different tastes, likes, and dislikes. > Commuting?  Train travel through Italy is one of the nicest ways to > see the countryside and meet interesting natives.

I don’t dislike train travel, but you get to see only a small part of the countryside that way. I do use trains to get from one place to next (usually; sometimes I drive), but that’s very different from commuting, which lets you see the same things twice a day every day. > My advice is not > to plan your trip around the biggest cities in Italy solely so you > can "check off" seeing the major tourist attractions and

museums. I agree that there’s much more in Italy than the major cities. And what to see on and do depends on the individual’s likes and dislikes. But on a first trip, for most people, the major tourist sites *are* what they want to see, and for good reason–they didn’t get to be major by accident. I completely agree with you about "checking off" the major tourist attractions and museums. I personally am not interested in going somewhere just so I can say "Oh, I’ve been there," and would never recommend that to anyone. It’s what I call the "Stamp Collecting" approach to travel. But people should go where they want to go and see what they want to see. As it turns out, much of that is usually those major tourist attractions and museums that happen to be in the big cities–primarily Rome, Venice, and Florence. > Get out into the country, taste the local produce, meet the local > people, and learn the pace of life that southern Italy (outside of > the cities) has to offer.

I like all of those same things myself, and would recommend the same thing, but mostly for a second trip–unless you’re fortunate enough to be able to take a very long first trip. For someone with only a typical two weeks to spend on a first trip, I can’t recommend more than Rome, Venice, and Florence–two weeks is nowhere enough to begin to see all of what they have to offer. > I suppose my views on Rome and Florence might have been a bit jaded: > we spent two glorious weeks in the Tuscan countryside and small > hilltowns

I too love many of the small hill towns and Tuscany, and perhaps even more in Umbria. My favorite Umbrian town is Spello. But I would never suggest to someone with two weeks that he, for example, cut out one of his five days in Rome to spend one in Spello. There might be someone for whom that’s the right choice, but he would be a very rare individual. > before heading to Florence and we felt absolutely > bludgeoned by the crowds, noise, and scooters.

As I said, I don’t particularly like Florence either, and for much the same reasons you cite. But there are wonderful things to see in Florence, and I would never suggest to an art lover that Florence be skipped on a first trip to Italy. Despite my not particularly liking the city, I’ve been there four times, to see and re-see the art. > Likewise, our trip to > Rome followed a stay of a few days in Sorrento: a stay in a lovely, > peaceful, fairly quiet town with beautiful surroundings,

Many people like Sorrento. I’m not particularly enamored of it. I’ve stayed there three times because it’s a great base for seeing the surrounding countryside, but that’s all. > followed by > Rome and its noise, smog, scooters, and crime.

Noise, smog, and scooters, yes. Crime? No, not in my experience. Although I too dislike noise, smog, and scooters, there is so much else in Rome that I love that I’m willing to put up with it. As I said in my earlier message, Rome is perhaps my favorite place in the world. I think I’d like to live there. > I guess I need to reapproach my travel planning and head to the big > cities first, then recover in the smaller, quieter towns

No. You should do what *you* like to do, not what someone else (not even me) thinks you should do. > Whatever your approach, enjoy your vacation!

Not me. I’m not the one planning a vacation. I replied to your message to present an opposite point of view. It’s the OP to whom you want to direct that comment, and I echo it too. I’ve traveled in Italy 15 times, including two trips last year. On last year’s first trip, in April, we spent seven days in Venice, three in Lucca, four in Florence, five in Siena, and four in Rome. This last trip, just a month ago, we spent nine days in Rome and five in Capri. So you can see that I like the smaller quieter places as well as the big cities. But as much as I love Capri, I think I’d quickly get bored living there. I’d love to live in Rome. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message >> Venice was (is) one of our favourite places to go. > Mine to. >> Rome: make your stay as short as possible.  See what you need > to see, >> then leave.  It’s crowded, noisy, crime-infested, and generally > not a >> nice place to be. > Each to his own. I’ll offer a contrary opinion. Rome is probably > my favorite place in the entire world, and there’s much to see > and do. I’d recommend staying there as long as possible. >> Florence: seriously consider staying out of town, in Tuscany >> somewhere, and taking a day trip or two to Florence. > Another contrary opinion: although Florence is not my favorite > place in Italy, if you want to see Florence you should stay in > Florence. Staying out of town and being a commuter (in Florence > or anywhere else) wastes a substantial part of your > always-too-short vacation time. Divide the total cost of your > trip by the number of hours you will be awake while there, and > you can see the enormous extent of that waste. > — > Ken Blake > Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

> Rome: make your stay as short as possible.  See what you need to see, then > leave.  It’s crowded, noisy, crime-infested, and generally not a nice place > to be (though we did have a couple of pretty good meals there!).  We had a > bad experience with a "B&B" there, so I’m afraid I don’t have a > recommendation for lodging.

having spent roughly a month in Rome on three separate trips —  most recently 10 days last May, I think you are nuts — a wonderful town, lots to see, delightful people > Florence: seriously consider staying out of town, in Tuscany somewhere, and > taking a day trip or two to Florence.  Much more peaceful that way.  We > stayed in Certaldo at the Mugnano Horse Farm.  Run by a very avid > horsewoman.  Her site: http://www.tuscany.net/mugnano/index.html

the absolutely worst advice of all — why go all the way to this center of renaisance art only to have the hassles of being a commuter.  the Tuscan countryside is fabulous — well worth a stay and a good base for driving to the many lovely small towns worth seeing — but if you want to see Florence — be in Florence — a great walking town.

Response:

Boy, am I getting beaten up on my posting about Rome and Florence! Commuting?  Train travel through Italy is one of the nicest ways to see the countryside and meet interesting natives.  My advice is not to plan your trip around the biggest cities in Italy solely so you can "check off" seeing the major tourist attractions and museums.  Get out into the country, taste the local produce, meet the local people, and learn the pace of life that southern Italy (outside of the cities) has to offer. I suppose my views on Rome and Florence might have been a bit jaded: we spent two glorious weeks in the Tuscan countryside and small hilltowns before heading to Florence and we felt absolutely bludgeoned by the crowds, noise, and scooters.  Likewise, our trip to Rome followed a stay of a few days in Sorrento: a stay in a lovely, peaceful, fairly quiet town with beautiful surroundings, followed by Rome and its noise, smog, scooters, and crime. I guess I need to reapproach my travel planning and head to the big cities first, then recover in the smaller, quieter towns Whatever your approach, enjoy your vacation! —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Venice was (is) one of our favourite places to go. > Mine to. > Rome: make your stay as short as possible.  See what you need > to see, > then leave.  It’s crowded, noisy, crime-infested, and generally > not a > nice place to be. > Each to his own. I’ll offer a contrary opinion. Rome is probably > my favorite place in the entire world, and there’s much to see > and do. I’d recommend staying there as long as possible. > Florence: seriously consider staying out of town, in Tuscany > somewhere, and taking a day trip or two to Florence. > Another contrary opinion: although Florence is not my favorite > place in Italy, if you want to see Florence you should stay in > Florence. Staying out of town and being a commuter (in Florence > or anywhere else) wastes a substantial part of your > always-too-short vacation time. Divide the total cost of your > trip by the number of hours you will be awake while there, and > you can see the enormous extent of that waste. > — > Ken Blake > Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

> > > Rome: make your stay as short as possible.  See what you need >> to see,  then leave.  It’s crowded, noisy, crime-infested, and generally > > not a nice place to be.

I live in Rome and I love it! If you’re interested in ancient history and architecture then you will not be put off by the negative aspects of Rome mentioned. One doesn’t come to Rome for peace and quiet. As far as crime is concerned, well, it’s mostly pick pockets or people trying to rip you off. Overall Rome is a safe city. Much safer than London, New York and LA, I would say. > I guess I need to reapproach my travel planning and head to the big cities > first, then recover in the smaller, quieter towns

An excellent strategy! — www

Question:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Take a look at my travelogue and see if you might like an escorted tour. briggl —— http://bestofitaly2001.com

Response:

> Take a look at my travelogue and see if you might like an escorted tour.

Who is their right mind would want an escorted tour on their honeymoon???  ;-) — Nancy Kay remove go and gone.to. "Patience is a virtue"

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping).

Unless your bank account is huge and fashion is your world, I don’t believe that central Milan (the only zone tourist are going to see) is any better for shopping than Florence and Rome. On a short tour you can skip shopping in Milan.

Response:

I got married in Italy – on Capri.  Very nice place to get married. There’s a company in London called Italia Romantica that can arrange all the paperwork.  We used them and they might be able to help you (even if you’re in Singapore).  www.italiaromantica.co.uk (but at the minute their website doesn’t appear to be working).  Alternatively there may be a similar outfit in Singapore, but I wouldn’t know. One thing to bear in mind is that you might need to arrive in the town in which you plan to marry several days before.  For example, we had to "live" on Capri for four days before we could get married there – so we had to show up a few days earlier to sign various bits of paperwork. Alan.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

>pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two places

Yes, that’s my intention. Not the city and urban. Rather, just concentrate on two places. Hence the need for recommendations, as I can’t decide which two, having not much information on Italy. But from what I gathered here (thanks all!!), I will have a good idea on where to start and where I should concentrate (Milan is definitely out now). karen http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> > Take a look at my travelogue and see if you might like an escorted tour. > Who is their right mind would want an escorted tour on their > honeymoon???  ;-)

Actually, there are a lot of people who would do it, for vaious reasons. I’m not saying that it is for everyone, but for some people it works out quite well. briggl —— http://bestofitaly2001.com Italy Travelogue

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. >>There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love >>some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. >>I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for >>shopping). >>We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real >>Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. >>Thanks! >>karen >>http://karen.webvis.net >pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two >>places > I completely agree. As much as I like the list of places Karen > would like to go to, ten days is far too little to see them all. > Less is more.

Nowhere does Karen suggest that she is interested in seeing them all. She is asking for suggestions about which of them to see. Frank Matthews

Response:

If it’s down to two I’d say Venice for atmosphere & Rome because it’s Rome. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two places > Yes, that’s my intention. Not the city and urban. Rather, just > concentrate on two places. Hence the need for recommendations, as I > can’t decide which two, having not much information on Italy. But from > what I gathered here (thanks all!!), I will have a good idea on where > to start and where I should concentrate (Milan is definitely out now). > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> If it’s down to two I’d say Venice for atmosphere & Rome because it’s Rome.

I’d say go to three – Venice 2-3 days, Rome 3-4 days then the rest by the beach/countryside somewhere.

Response:

> Fiance and I …would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know.

I think you could visit Venice, Florence, and Rome in ten days without stretching too much. Fly into Venice and out of Rme. Shop in Florence and Rome. You wouldn’t even need a car. Venice a wonderful place to de-jetlag, also a "real" (if singular and atypical) place full of real Venitians, just stroll off the beaten track a bit. On the other hand you’d be justified in scaling back further as others have suggested. And a car would let you see the country and really escape the hordes of travelers. Whatever you decide: You’ll never regret it if you add a day (or two!) to your trip. Never.

Response:

My wife and I spent our honeymoon in Italy last June (2002).  We stayed in only 3 cities in 14 days, Rome, Florence, and Siena.  I would highly recommend minimizing your travel once you are there. There will be plenty to do wherever you go.  To see what we did, goto http://web.utk.edu/~kit/italy/ Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am in this league myself. > or > rent a place in Tuscany for a week near Siena, rent a car, and use that > as a base for exploring the region and spend the remaining few days in > Florence > If you really want a see everything, hit and run trip then get Rick > Steves book on Italy for a model of how to put that sort of trip > together — he does a good job of orchestrating this type of trip > If using Rick Steves for a tour idea be aware that his idea of > accomodations is god awful. Use some other guide for hotels.

oh absolutely agree on that — he has a nice sense of rhythm for a trip if you are doing a see it all jaunt — but we have also found his hotel recommendations beyond dreadful.

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping).

Flip a coin: any of the cities you mentioned would be wonderful for your honeymoon trip to Italy.  Florence, Venice, Capri, and also Siena are very romantic areas. Florence has tons of shopping. So does Rome.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our >>> honeymoon. >>> There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love >>> some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. >>> I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for >>> shopping). >>> We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real >>> Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. >>> Thanks! >>> karen >>> http://karen.webvis.net  pick two places — one city, one less >>> urban area and stay in two places > I completely agree. As much as I like the list of places Karen > would like to go to, ten days is far too little to see them all. > Less is more. > Nowhere does Karen suggest that she is interested in seeing them all. > She is asking for suggestions about which of them to see.

On rereading her message, I find it somewhat ambiguous. You could read it the way I did or the way you did. You’re probably right, though. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

>Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. >There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love >some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. >I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for >shopping). >We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy.

I think that cuts out Capri. June is high season already, so keep that in mind. Consider Siena, which is a major draw for tourists but a much smaller city than Florence, without the automobile traffic and attendant pollution, and with a real Medieval feel. But if you want a place that’s quieter and less overrun by tourists, think about going to one of the really pretty cities in Umbria, such as Spoleto or Gubbio. Other posters can recommend beautiful towns in various other regions of Italy. Recently, there was a very detailed trip report about the Marche. >We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know.

I suggest that you base yourselves in one place and take day trips. If you find driving not to be tension-causing, consider renting a car for the purpose. And congratulations on your upcoming wedding! Michael

Response:

Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for shopping). We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. Thanks! karen http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two places If it were me I’d probably spend half the time in Rome and half south of there on the Amalfi coast to visit Paestum, Capri, Pompeii etc etc There are some wonderful romantic hotels in Sorrento as a base for that part or rent a place in Tuscany for a week near Siena, rent a car, and use that as a base for exploring the region and spend the remaining few days in Florence If you really want a see everything, hit and run trip then get Rick Steves book on Italy for a model of how to put that sort of trip together — he does a good job of orchestrating this type of trip

Response:

@news.vanderbilt.edu:

I am in this league myself. > or > rent a place in Tuscany for a week near Siena, rent a car, and use that > as a base for exploring the region and spend the remaining few days in > Florence > If you really want a see everything, hit and run trip then get Rick > Steves book on Italy for a model of how to put that sort of trip > together — he does a good job of orchestrating this type of trip

If using Rick Steves for a tour idea be aware that his idea of accomodations is god awful. Use some other guide for hotels.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real > Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net > pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two > places

I completely agree. As much as I like the list of places Karen would like to go to, ten days is far too little to see them all. Less is more. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for shopping). We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. Thanks! karen http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two places If it were me I’d probably spend half the time in Rome and half south of there on the Amalfi coast to visit Paestum, Capri, Pompeii etc etc There are some wonderful romantic hotels in Sorrento as a base for that part or rent a place in Tuscany for a week near Siena, rent a car, and use that as a base for exploring the region and spend the remaining few days in Florence If you really want a see everything, hit and run trip then get Rick Steves book on Italy for a model of how to put that sort of trip together — he does a good job of orchestrating this type of trip

Response:

@news.vanderbilt.edu:

I am in this league myself. > or > rent a place in Tuscany for a week near Siena, rent a car, and use that > as a base for exploring the region and spend the remaining few days in > Florence > If you really want a see everything, hit and run trip then get Rick > Steves book on Italy for a model of how to put that sort of trip > together — he does a good job of orchestrating this type of trip

If using Rick Steves for a tour idea be aware that his idea of accomodations is god awful. Use some other guide for hotels.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real > Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net > pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two > places

I completely agree. As much as I like the list of places Karen would like to go to, ten days is far too little to see them all. Less is more. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Take a look at my travelogue and see if you might like an escorted tour. briggl —— http://bestofitaly2001.com

Response:

> Take a look at my travelogue and see if you might like an escorted tour.

Who is their right mind would want an escorted tour on their honeymoon???  ;-) — Nancy Kay remove go and gone.to. "Patience is a virtue"

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping).

Unless your bank account is huge and fashion is your world, I don’t believe that central Milan (the only zone tourist are going to see) is any better for shopping than Florence and Rome. On a short tour you can skip shopping in Milan.

Response:

I got married in Italy – on Capri.  Very nice place to get married. There’s a company in London called Italia Romantica that can arrange all the paperwork.  We used them and they might be able to help you (even if you’re in Singapore).  www.italiaromantica.co.uk (but at the minute their website doesn’t appear to be working).  Alternatively there may be a similar outfit in Singapore, but I wouldn’t know. One thing to bear in mind is that you might need to arrive in the town in which you plan to marry several days before.  For example, we had to "live" on Capri for four days before we could get married there – so we had to show up a few days earlier to sign various bits of paperwork. Alan.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

>Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. >There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love >some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. >I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for >shopping). >We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy.

I think that cuts out Capri. June is high season already, so keep that in mind. Consider Siena, which is a major draw for tourists but a much smaller city than Florence, without the automobile traffic and attendant pollution, and with a real Medieval feel. But if you want a place that’s quieter and less overrun by tourists, think about going to one of the really pretty cities in Umbria, such as Spoleto or Gubbio. Other posters can recommend beautiful towns in various other regions of Italy. Recently, there was a very detailed trip report about the Marche. >We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know.

I suggest that you base yourselves in one place and take day trips. If you find driving not to be tension-causing, consider renting a car for the purpose. And congratulations on your upcoming wedding! Michael

Response:

>pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two places

Yes, that’s my intention. Not the city and urban. Rather, just concentrate on two places. Hence the need for recommendations, as I can’t decide which two, having not much information on Italy. But from what I gathered here (thanks all!!), I will have a good idea on where to start and where I should concentrate (Milan is definitely out now). karen http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> > Take a look at my travelogue and see if you might like an escorted tour. > Who is their right mind would want an escorted tour on their > honeymoon???  ;-)

Actually, there are a lot of people who would do it, for vaious reasons. I’m not saying that it is for everyone, but for some people it works out quite well. briggl —— http://bestofitaly2001.com Italy Travelogue

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. >>There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love >>some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. >>I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for >>shopping). >>We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real >>Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. >>Thanks! >>karen >>http://karen.webvis.net >pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two >>places > I completely agree. As much as I like the list of places Karen > would like to go to, ten days is far too little to see them all. > Less is more.

Nowhere does Karen suggest that she is interested in seeing them all. She is asking for suggestions about which of them to see. Frank Matthews

Response:

If it’s down to two I’d say Venice for atmosphere & Rome because it’s Rome. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->pick two places — one city, one less urban area and stay in two places > Yes, that’s my intention. Not the city and urban. Rather, just > concentrate on two places. Hence the need for recommendations, as I > can’t decide which two, having not much information on Italy. But from > what I gathered here (thanks all!!), I will have a good idea on where > to start and where I should concentrate (Milan is definitely out now). > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

> If it’s down to two I’d say Venice for atmosphere & Rome because it’s Rome.

I’d say go to three – Venice 2-3 days, Rome 3-4 days then the rest by the beach/countryside somewhere.

Response:

> Fiance and I …would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know.

I think you could visit Venice, Florence, and Rome in ten days without stretching too much. Fly into Venice and out of Rme. Shop in Florence and Rome. You wouldn’t even need a car. Venice a wonderful place to de-jetlag, also a "real" (if singular and atypical) place full of real Venitians, just stroll off the beaten track a bit. On the other hand you’d be justified in scaling back further as others have suggested. And a car would let you see the country and really escape the hordes of travelers. Whatever you decide: You’ll never regret it if you add a day (or two!) to your trip. Never.

Response:

My wife and I spent our honeymoon in Italy last June (2002).  We stayed in only 3 cities in 14 days, Rome, Florence, and Siena.  I would highly recommend minimizing your travel once you are there. There will be plenty to do wherever you go.  To see what we did, goto http://web.utk.edu/~kit/italy/ Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping). > We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real Italy. > We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. > Thanks! > karen > http://karen.webvis.net

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am in this league myself. > or > rent a place in Tuscany for a week near Siena, rent a car, and use that > as a base for exploring the region and spend the remaining few days in > Florence > If you really want a see everything, hit and run trip then get Rick > Steves book on Italy for a model of how to put that sort of trip > together — he does a good job of orchestrating this type of trip > If using Rick Steves for a tour idea be aware that his idea of > accomodations is god awful. Use some other guide for hotels.

oh absolutely agree on that — he has a nice sense of rhythm for a trip if you are doing a see it all jaunt — but we have also found his hotel recommendations beyond dreadful.

Response:

> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our honeymoon. > There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love > some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. > I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for > shopping).

Flip a coin: any of the cities you mentioned would be wonderful for your honeymoon trip to Italy.  Florence, Venice, Capri, and also Siena are very romantic areas. Florence has tons of shopping. So does Rome.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Fiance and I are planning to go to Italy next June for our >>> honeymoon. >>> There are way too many nice places to visit in Italy, so would love >>> some recommendations, to further narrow down our choices. >>> I am thinking of Venice, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Rome, Milan (for >>> shopping). >>> We want to do romantic, yet at the same time, not miss the real >>> Italy. We’re putting aside 10 days. Not that much I know. >>> Thanks! >>> karen >>> http://karen.webvis.net  pick two places — one city, one less >>> urban area and stay in two places > I completely agree. As much as I like the list of places Karen > would like to go to, ten days is far too little to see them all. > Less is more. > Nowhere does Karen suggest that she is interested in seeing them all. > She is asking for suggestions about which of them to see.

On rereading her message, I find it somewhat ambiguous. You could read it the way I did or the way you did. You’re probably right, though. — Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup

Response:

Question:

> Hi Luca, > I am shamed into action!  I had been meaning since my return in AUGUST to > drop (especially) you a note of thanks!  I have been intending to compile my > posts and the responses to show how much help you were on this my first trip > to Europe.  Alas, I have been so busy and the best of intentions….

Louis, don’t take it personally. Only, a bit of feedback *after* the fact is always more precise and significative than a ton of adivice *before* the fact.

Response:

I attended a performance of Tosca at the arena in Verona during my recent trip, with Daniela Dessi’ in the title role and Ruggero Raimondi as Scarpia –  a great musical experience. First, a word of thanks to our friend Luca Logi for the useful information he provided about the performances. On the basis of Luca’s advice, I decided to go for a posh seat. Thanks also to Her Majesty Inspector of Taxes who helpfully returned some overpaid income tax, some of which I spent on one of the poshest seats of all – the "poltronissime". Performances start at nine o’clock in August (a quarter past nine in July), and I had used a deal including a coach transfer from Desenzano – necessary because I hadn’t taken my car to Italy and the late ending of the performance means that public transport wasn’t an option. Intervals are taken up by vigorous commercial activity as the arena staff come around selling programmes and other items of merchandise. Public announcements are made in Italian, German, English and French regarding safety and other matters, and the operation is very well managed. Toilet facilities are rather rudimentary, consisting of temporary toilets just outside the arena: the men’s bogs are of the seatless variety and not exactly fragrant. Plenty of restaurants around the arena remained open when I came out, and it would certainly be possible for people staying in Verona to eat after the show. Alan Harrison

Response:

> I attended a performance of Tosca at the arena in Verona during my > recent trip, with Daniela Dessi’ in the title role and Ruggero Raimondi > as Scarpia –  a great musical experience.

Thank you. I always appreciate when someone back from a travel finds the time to drop a note.

Response:

Hi Luca, I am shamed into action!  I had been meaning since my return in AUGUST to drop (especially) you a note of thanks!  I have been intending to compile my posts and the responses to show how much help you were on this my first trip to Europe.  Alas, I have been so busy and the best of intentions…. So here, from my feeble memory are a couple of things you helped me with: 1. Good advice on Hotel Kraft in Florence. 2. Great tip on Trattoria Baldini. 3. Good general comments about driving in Florence. 4. Excellent advice about our route home – you advised to drive straight from Verona to Munich rather than our plan of Lugano, St. Moritz etc.  In the end we took your (very excellent) advice about this route and we were glad to have had that option.  We were too tired to do our plan and your advice was perfect. I know there are many other posts,  many of which were in response to other posters…but they were a great help to me.  I said once before that I count this newsgroup as one of the best places to have planned this family trip. We were gone for one month and the trip was practically flawless.  We were ready for almost everything that came our way.  I know this is because people like you.  Does the Italian Tourist Ministry know about you? I should  say it now before another month passes ….I also want to thank Barbara, Larry, Dave Bellefieulle, Miguel, The Oik,…  I also wanted to personalize this more but …again… the best intentions…   Each of you gave me some really excellent advice that helped me a great deal.   I am sorry but there are probably many others that I can’t think of off hand… You and many others  really do make for a great group here!!  It is a real pleasure to read the posts that are full of intelligence, humour, insight and often warmth. So Thank You so much   Luca et al     for your help!!! Louis McEniry Toronto, Canada ps…if you are ever coming this way and you have questions send me an email!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I attended a performance of Tosca at the arena in Verona during my > recent trip, with Daniela Dessi’ in the title role and Ruggero Raimondi > as Scarpia –  a great musical experience. > Thank you. I always appreciate when someone back from a travel finds the > time to drop a note.

Response:

I attended a performance of Tosca at the arena in Verona during my recent trip, with Daniela Dessi’ in the title role and Ruggero Raimondi as Scarpia –  a great musical experience. First, a word of thanks to our friend Luca Logi for the useful information he provided about the performances. On the basis of Luca’s advice, I decided to go for a posh seat. Thanks also to Her Majesty Inspector of Taxes who helpfully returned some overpaid income tax, some of which I spent on one of the poshest seats of all – the "poltronissime". Performances start at nine o’clock in August (a quarter past nine in July), and I had used a deal including a coach transfer from Desenzano – necessary because I hadn’t taken my car to Italy and the late ending of the performance means that public transport wasn’t an option. Intervals are taken up by vigorous commercial activity as the arena staff come around selling programmes and other items of merchandise. Public announcements are made in Italian, German, English and French regarding safety and other matters, and the operation is very well managed. Toilet facilities are rather rudimentary, consisting of temporary toilets just outside the arena: the men’s bogs are of the seatless variety and not exactly fragrant. Plenty of restaurants around the arena remained open when I came out, and it would certainly be possible for people staying in Verona to eat after the show. Alan Harrison

Response:

> I attended a performance of Tosca at the arena in Verona during my > recent trip, with Daniela Dessi’ in the title role and Ruggero Raimondi > as Scarpia –  a great musical experience.

Thank you. I always appreciate when someone back from a travel finds the time to drop a note.

Response:

Hi Luca, I am shamed into action!  I had been meaning since my return in AUGUST to drop (especially) you a note of thanks!  I have been intending to compile my posts and the responses to show how much help you were on this my first trip to Europe.  Alas, I have been so busy and the best of intentions…. So here, from my feeble memory are a couple of things you helped me with: 1. Good advice on Hotel Kraft in Florence. 2. Great tip on Trattoria Baldini. 3. Good general comments about driving in Florence. 4. Excellent advice about our route home – you advised to drive straight from Verona to Munich rather than our plan of Lugano, St. Moritz etc.  In the end we took your (very excellent) advice about this route and we were glad to have had that option.  We were too tired to do our plan and your advice was perfect. I know there are many other posts,  many of which were in response to other posters…but they were a great help to me.  I said once before that I count this newsgroup as one of the best places to have planned this family trip. We were gone for one month and the trip was practically flawless.  We were ready for almost everything that came our way.  I know this is because people like you.  Does the Italian Tourist Ministry know about you? I should  say it now before another month passes ….I also want to thank Barbara, Larry, Dave Bellefieulle, Miguel, The Oik,…  I also wanted to personalize this more but …again… the best intentions…   Each of you gave me some really excellent advice that helped me a great deal.   I am sorry but there are probably many others that I can’t think of off hand… You and many others  really do make for a great group here!!  It is a real pleasure to read the posts that are full of intelligence, humour, insight and often warmth. So Thank You so much   Luca et al     for your help!!! Louis McEniry Toronto, Canada ps…if you are ever coming this way and you have questions send me an email!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I attended a performance of Tosca at the arena in Verona during my > recent trip, with Daniela Dessi’ in the title role and Ruggero Raimondi > as Scarpia –  a great musical experience. > Thank you. I always appreciate when someone back from a travel finds the > time to drop a note.

Response:

> Hi Luca, > I am shamed into action!  I had been meaning since my return in AUGUST to > drop (especially) you a note of thanks!  I have been intending to compile my > posts and the responses to show how much help you were on this my first trip > to Europe.  Alas, I have been so busy and the best of intentions….

Louis, don’t take it personally. Only, a bit of feedback *after* the fact is always more precise and significative than a ton of adivice *before* the fact.

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m new to this group, so apologies if this question has been previously > answered. My wife & I plan to fly to Rome in early September, stay in Rome > for a week, then use the train service to stay in Florence for our second > week, then return to Rome for the return flight to the UK. Obviously a > return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > I have looked at the Trenitalia web site, but it isn’t particularly helpful, > especially as the booking service has been suspended. > My question: What is the most economical ticket to buy based on the above > info? Can anyone point me to a web site with the info I require? > Thanks in advance & best wishes, > Scott Leckey

The trip is such a short one these days on the high speed train that it is worth it to me to go on one of them. When I first went there in the early 70s it seemed endless. Now it’s more like a commute. Give yourself the deluxe treatment. It isn’t that much money and it is comfortable. buon viaggio   willgee

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m new to this group, so apologies if this question has been previously > answered. My wife & I plan to fly to Rome in early September, stay in Rome > for a week, then use the train service to stay in Florence for our second > week, then return to Rome for the return flight to the UK. Obviously a > return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > I have looked at the Trenitalia web site, but it isn’t particularly helpful, > especially as the booking service has been suspended. > My question: What is the most economical ticket to buy based on the above > info? Can anyone point me to a web site with the info I require? > Thanks in advance & best wishes, > Scott Leckey

There’s no magic in this.  You walk up to the window that says "Biglietti" and ask for two second class return tickets to Firenze.  (Due biglietti secondo)  You can even do this at the airport train station windows when you arrive, if you like, since they lines are shorter.  At the airport there’s more likely to be some English on the other side of the counter. It is cheap, not necessary to buy ahead and hardly longer than a lot of people’s daily commute.  You then check the printed schedule on the wall and it will tell you which track (binario) to go to to get your train.  Before you get on, stick the tickets into the yellow machine to validate that leg, then look for a car that has a big 2 on it, and get on.

Response:

> Obviously a return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > No, think of it like a subway (underground) or city bus service – > artificially cheap subsidized fares and little need for prepurchase. > See schedules at http://bahn.hafas.de/english.html (click on graphics). > You should consider using the cheap trains to spend time outside > of those black holes of tourist hell – I’m euphoric about completely > avoiding Rome and Florence in my next Italy visit.  Guidebooks even > emphasize Florence is the worst base to see Florence itself(!) but > to continually daytrip in there from Siena for example.

How dismissive of two treasure troves of the world.  Don’t travel in high season and work out how to stay in less touristy accomodations.  Rent an apartment.  Even people who live in Italy love to go to Rome and Florence, just not in the summer.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Obviously a return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > No, think of it like a subway (underground) or city bus service – > artificially cheap subsidized fares and little need for prepurchase. > See schedules at http://bahn.hafas.de/english.html (click on graphics). > You should consider using the cheap trains to spend time outside > of those black holes of tourist hell – I’m euphoric about completely > avoiding Rome and Florence in my next Italy visit.  Guidebooks even > emphasize Florence is the worst base to see Florence itself(!) but > to continually daytrip in there from Siena for example. > How dismissive of two treasure troves of the world.  Don’t travel in high > season and work out how to stay in less touristy accomodations.  Rent an > apartment.  Even people who live in Italy love to go to Rome and Florence, > just not in the summer.

I love Rome at any time of the year. Even when it’s beastly hot and crowded, I still love that city. I also wouldn’t miss a chance to go to Florence, but it doesn’t captivate me as Rome does. Barbara

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m new to this group, so apologies if this question has been previously > answered. My wife & I plan to fly to Rome in early September, stay in Rome > for a week, then use the train service to stay in Florence for our second > week, then return to Rome for the return flight to the UK. Obviously a > return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > I have looked at the Trenitalia web site, but it isn’t particularly helpful, > especially as the booking service has been suspended. > My question: What is the most economical ticket to buy based on the above > info? Can anyone point me to a web site with the info I require? > Thanks in advance & best wishes, > Scott Leckey

Thanks to everyone for their help. Scott Leckey

Response:

Scott Termini Station in Rome is a modern rail road station were can will find all  the help there and answers to your questions at the information area. I would suggest you not buy your ticket in advance until you get to Rome. Then a few days before you have to leave for Florence stop by Termini Station, visited the Information booth and let then help you plan your rail travel. This way you can be very flexible with what time you want to leave Rome for Florence. They can also help you on your return trip from Florence to Rome and with the train from Termini to the Rome’s airport. Have fun Rome is a beautiful place to visit Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m new to this group, so apologies if this question has been previously > answered. My wife & I plan to fly to Rome in early September, stay in Rome > for a week, then use the train service to stay in Florence for our second > week, then return to Rome for the return flight to the UK. Obviously a > return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > I have looked at the Trenitalia web site, but it isn’t particularly helpful, > especially as the booking service has been suspended. > My question: What is the most economical ticket to buy based on the above > info? Can anyone point me to a web site with the info I require? > Thanks in advance & best wishes, > Scott Leckey

Response:

Originally posted by Judith: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Obviously a return train ticket of some sort would be cheapest. > No, think of it like a subway (underground) or city bus service – > artificially > cheap subsidized fares and little need for prepurchase. See > schedules at > http://bahn.hafas.de/english.htmlhttp://bahn.hafas.de/english.html > (click on graphics). > You should consider using the cheap trains to spend time outside of > those black > holes of tourist hell – I’m euphoric about completely avoiding Rome > and Florence in > my next Italy visit.  Guidebooks even emphasize Florence is the > worst base to see > Florence itself(!) but to continually daytrip in there from Siena > for example. > How dismissive of two treasure troves of the world.  Don’t travel > in high season and > work out how to stay in less touristy accomodations.  Rent an > apartment.  Even people > who live in Italy love to go to Rome and Florence, just not in > the summer.

Problem is, Firenze does not exactly have a low season and is the closest Italy has got to Disneyland these days — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

>There’s no magic in this. You walk up to >the window that says "Biglietti" and ask >for two second class return tickets to >Firenze. (Due biglietti secondo)

But which type of train:)? You have basically 3 choices. (By cost & time).  The slow multi-stop "D" train, your ticket would be valid for 2 months. Just validate and hop-on. Basic ticket.  The quicker IC train also valid for 2 months. But if you wanted the optional

Question:

Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? I  have some free time to travel in February. How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

Response:

Bologna is worth EATING in any time of the year. Best food city in Europe imho. It is also a rather nice place. I’ve traveled in Italy in February..it is as close to a "down" moth for tourism as it ever gets there. Very short days (remember, Rome is about as far north as New York City, so northern Italy is NORTHERN and therefore as longer nights in winter than most of the US. (I am assume US from your email address). There is always plenty to do. You are unlikely to get snow, but can expect chilly weather and rain (although winter is the driest season there). As for which city.. well, I’m not a Milano fan, but that is just personal taste. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? > I  have some free time to travel in February. > How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. > I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. > Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? > Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

Response:

> Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? > I  have some free time to travel in February. > How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. > I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. > Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? > Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

I like to travel in winter — but I think that big cities are better in winter than rural areas.  In February I would think about Rome and Florence  – we often go to Paris for Christmas and it is delightful that time of year.  I have traveled in London in February and also found that very pleasant.

Response:

Florence is at its best in February – ie as empty of tourists as it ever gets. Venice – not true because of carnevale, if you avoid that it will be pleasantly uncrowded in Feb too. In general I would say Feb is a perfectly good month to travel and you could take in some skiing too maybe. — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

> Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? > I  have some free time to travel in February. > How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. > I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. > Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? > Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

The trains should be fine. The weather will probably be better in Bologna than Milan, but my personal preference is for Milan, which is underrated as an art destination because it is primarily known as Italy’s financial capital. See the Duomo, Piazza del Duomo, Ambrosiana and Brera museums, Poldi Pezzoli Museum, Navigli canal area. Despite its "modern" image, Milan is very old, for example, Saint Augustine was baptized there in 387. I also think that all four cities would be too much. Cynthia www.smilingeggplant.com

Response:

>Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February?

Not at all.  I have been to Tuscany and Umbria in January and February 2000 and to Venezia in February 2001 and had a fine time on both trips.  Fewer crowds, decent weather (maybe I was lucky), no problem getting hotels or museum, concert, etc.. tickets (alrthough concerts were very scarce in January, the season seems to begin in mid-February). >How is traveling in Italy in February via trains.

Just fine. >I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. >Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? >Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

Neither.  I’d go to Venice.  There should be some fine classical music there then. Larry at Morro Bay, California (seaotter #six at a o l dot com)(no spaces in address)

Response:

I suggest to visit San Gimignano, http://www.vacanzeasangimignano.cjb.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? > I  have some free time to travel in February. > How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. > I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. > Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? > Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? > Not at all.  I have been to Tuscany and Umbria in January and February 2000 > and > to Venezia in February 2001 and had a fine time on both trips.  Fewer crowds, > decent weather (maybe I was lucky), no problem getting hotels or museum, > concert, etc.. tickets (alrthough concerts were very scarce in January, the > season seems to begin in mid-February). >How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. > Just fine. >I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. >Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? >Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ? > Neither.  I’d go to Venice.  There should be some fine classical music there > then. > Larry at Morro Bay, California (seaotter #six at a o l dot com)(no spaces in > address)

Re: music in Venice…..http://www.musicinvenice.com/index.html willgee

Response:

> Bologna is worth EATING in any time of the year. Best food city in Europe > imho. It is also a rather nice place. > I’ve traveled in Italy in February..it is as close to a "down" moth for > tourism as it ever gets there. Very short days (remember, Rome is about as > far north as New York City, so northern Italy is NORTHERN and therefore as > longer nights in winter than most of the US. (I am assume US from your email > address).

Rome is actually on the same parallel as Boston, and Florence and Venice are both further north. Before I moved permanently to Italy, I once had a vacation in Umbria in late February. It was very pleasant and many spring flowers were already in bloom. Florence and Bologna are usually even milder than Umbria. However, the weather is unpredictable in February, just as it is in the US. You’re taking a certain amount of risk travelling in that month. On the other hand, the itinerary proposed (which was snipped out of the post I responded to) is mostly urban, and a little rain and chilly weather shouldn’t be much of a problem. It’s not like a trip to the beach. Barbara Barbara

Response:

> I suggest to visit San Gimignano, > [web site snipped]

Do you ever have anything else to say? Barbara

Response:

We were in Umbria a couple of years ago at the end of March and woke up one morning to find it snowing!!!  It was freezing, but absolutely beautiful. Wouldn’t have missed it ..great experience. Just went out and bought a warmer sweater! BJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Before I moved permanently to Italy, I once had a vacation in Umbria in > late February. It was very pleasant and many spring flowers were already > in bloom. Florence and Bologna are usually even milder than Umbria. > However, the weather is unpredictable in February, just as it is in the > US. You’re taking a certain amount of risk travelling in that month. On > the other hand, the itinerary proposed (which was snipped out of the > post I responded to) is mostly urban, and a little rain and chilly > weather shouldn’t be much of a problem. It’s not like a trip to the > beach. > Barbara > Barbara

Response:

> We were in Umbria a couple of years ago at the end of March and woke up one > morning to find it snowing!!!  It was freezing, but absolutely beautiful. > Wouldn’t have missed it ..great experience. Just went out and bought a > warmer sweater! > BJ

And then of course, there are loads of factory stores selling cashmere in Umbria, so cold weather could be a real plus.

Response:

> Am I crazy for thinking of traveling to Italy in February? > I  have some free time to travel in February. > How is traveling in Italy in February via trains. > I am thinking of going to Rome,Florence,Bologna,Milan. > Is Bologna worth seeing in February ?? > Which city would you recommend spending more time in Bologna or Milan ?

As my wife and I are both teachers we can only travel half way round the world in the long summer holidays, so we always visit Europe in December/January. Italy is fine in Jan, cant see Feb being any worse. We were in Milan, Pisa, Rome, Venice and Tuscany in Jan 2002 and had a wonderful time. One rainny day, 2 or 3 cloudy ones, rest of the time was great sunshine. Of course the days are a bit short, but thats life. We spent most of the time in the cities, but one week was spent in rual Tuscany, just outside Greve, the weather, although cold than we are used to was no problem. Allen

Response:

I like to wander down to Italy or somewhere in the Mediterranean in February and November. It’s a whole lot warmer and with longer days than the UK at the same time. There are fewer tourists than at any other time, but almost as many trains and buses. Hotels in seaside resorts may close, but in other places they’ll often be cutting their prices instead and you can almost always just turn up and find a room. Some places which are in part regarded as tourist attractions may take advantage of the quiet season to close to spruce up their facilities. Most will be open as usual, but if you have some particular "sight" on your itinerary, you may want to check in advance. There’s carnival time, on one scale or another, in many places in Italy. — Andrew Nightingale of Cambridge (UK)

Response:

Of course not b/c he owns something in San Gimigano.  It is worth a visit if you are near by but I don’t think it is worth a special trip especially if your time is limited. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I suggest to visit San Gimignano, > [web site snipped] > Do you ever have anything else to say? > Barbara

Response: