Question:

mangled uncounted electrons thus: <snip> >More passengers. If some low cost carrier were to somehow connect the domestic >Southwest and domestic Easyjet networks (however loosely the connection would >be), it would be great marketing and may openb new markets for transatlantic >traffic, just as Ryanair opened new markets by carrying football fans to games. >You know, it could be as simple as Southwest just linking to Easyjet’s web >site to show all the locations they can fly to from Stanstead, and vice versa. >You’d have 2 separate tickets. But by "hubbing" at a common airport to make >transfers palatable, the low cost carriers could feed each other.

That actually makes a lot of sense… And it would be nice to have a transatlantic option out of Stansted…  ^_- Martin D. Pay Yes, I live much close to Stansted than to the other airports that serve London …  ^_^

Response:

> serve the individual routes they can make money on. I see Westjet as > being like Virgin Blue in Australia. DJ has put itself in the position > of Ansett(rip) as a direct competitor to QF, I guess Westjet does the > same with AC.

Correct. And one has to consider that bus and trains are not cheap in canada, so Westjet doesn’t need to offer $25 fares. > much getting people out of trains, cars, and people who wouldn’t > otherwise have travelled at all.

Doesn’t Ryanair cater to football hooligans who can now travel to see games instead of watching them on the tele ? (and for the price of a case of beer). > By definition, any agreement that Ryanair makes with another carrier > will in some way restrict Ryanair’s operations.

Why should it ? > Again the business model of airlines like EZY and FR has check-in > starting 2 hours before departure. If they allow passengers to > check-in 12 hours in advance, then those passengers get delayed, > diveted, held up in immigration, arrested by customs, that will create > an issue at the boarding gate.

Simple: flight leaves without them, period. If you’re not there on time they don’t wait for you. As long as passengers are aware of this when they buy a $50 transtlantic ticket, then there is no issue. > Not to mention when Southwest forgets > to apply FR’s baggage allowances.

Ok, this is an issue.   > What is the benefit to them?

More passengers. If some low cost carrier were to somehow connect the domestic Southwest and domestic Easyjet networks (however loosely the connection would be), it would be great marketing and may openb new markets for transatlantic traffic, just as Ryanair opened new markets by carrying football fans to games. You know, it could be as simple as Southwest just linking to Easyjet’s web site to show all the locations they can fly to from Stanstead, and vice versa. You’d have 2 separate tickets. But by "hubbing" at a common airport to make transfers palatable, the low cost carriers could feed each other. Rioght now, if you fly Air Canada to London, connecting to Easyjet at Stanstead or Gatwick isn’t so great. > Ryanair will > want the same income from that seat as they would generate getting a > credit card number direct from a customer, so who is going to pay the > difference?

Is Southwest is going to sell a Dallas-Bari (italy) ticket, then the transatlantic portion could be priced to include all the overhead needed to pay easyjet their full fare to carry the pax from London to Bari. Or you simply don’t sell ticket to Bari, you sell tickets to London and let the pax buy a separate ticket to Bari.

Response:

"interlining" means that the airlienes move bags between themselves and you can do one check in. It doesn’t have to mean a through fare from origin to destination. I wonder how much it costs in a negotiated contract? $5.00 per pax? And it goes both ways. I agree that the low cost carriers would win by interlining bags.

Response:

>> Apparently Southwest even give you a free drink, and don’t they have > some sort of FF program as well, and allow on-line connections? >Yes. They are low cost but not bare bones low cost.  I don’t think that they >offer ridiculously low fares as do Ryannair. > Then Westjet is not a true ‘Next Generation’ low cost carrier. >Not a bare bones one. But consider Westjet, when it expand beyond its original >small playing field in the Alberta/BC, started to have much longer duration >flights. Montreal Vancouver is 5 hours. Does Ryannair have 5 hour flights ?

I don’t think Ryanair (one n!) have 5 hour flights, I seem to remember reading that 1-3 hour sectors fit their business model better. Because they are a purely point to point carrier they are not interested in serving the whole market, having blanket coverage, they only choose to serve the individual routes they can make money on. I see Westjet as being like Virgin Blue in Australia. DJ has put itself in the position of Ansett(rip) as a direct competitor to QF, I guess Westjet does the same with AC. The European lowcosts tend to provide their own products, yes, attracting customers from other airlines, but just as much getting people out of trains, cars, and people who wouldn’t otherwise have travelled at all. > Entering in to an interline agreement with another carrier immediately > brings restrictions to your operations that wouldn’t otherwise be > there. >You are thinking about conventional interlining. Some sort of interlining >agreement between low cost carriers would not necessarily bring in restrictions.

By definition, any agreement that Ryanair makes with another carrier will in some way restrict Ryanair’s operations. >Luggage transfers are Stanstead is not needed due to the need to go through >customers anyways. >So interlining might just mean Southwest acting as a sales agent to Easyjet >and possibly issuing Easyjet boading passes. This would actually reduce costs >at Easyjet who wouldn’t have to process those pax at the check-in counters.

Again the business model of airlines like EZY and FR has check-in starting 2 hours before departure. If they allow passengers to check-in 12 hours in advance, then those passengers get delayed, diveted, held up in immigration, arrested by customs, that will create an issue at the boarding gate. Not to mention when Southwest forgets to apply FR’s baggage allowances. That issue at the boarding gate will delay the flight, and the 7 subsequent flights that day. Why would FR want that hassle? What is the benefit to them? As for costs of processing at check-in, at East Midlands last year EZY had the first flight in the world that was checked in with 100% utilization of self-service check-in machines. It was a publicity stunt, but it won’t be long before that is the norm. >And interlining between 2 low cost carriers does not necessarily require any >responsability to pay hotels etc should a connection be missed. It woudl >essentially be justy a way for each carriers to publish fares that combine >multiple tickets, just as they currently do when they sell you connecting flights.

But these carriers don’t publish fares, other than an indication of ‘from’ prices, they make you an offer when you go to their website and type in your dates. You accept the offer, or go back the next day and see what they offer then. If Southwest were to start selling Ryanair tickets, who is going to pay the costs? Costs involved in accounting processes, the costs of dealing in foreign currencies. Ryanair will want the same income from that seat as they would generate getting a credit card number direct from a customer, so who is going to pay the difference? –==++AJC++==–

Response:

Southwest had some sort of cooperative agreement with Icelandair [transatlantic] at Baltimore some years ago.  One presumes it wasn’t thought to be a success.

Response:

> Apparently Southwest even give you a free drink, and don’t they have > some sort of FF program as well, and allow on-line connections?

Yes. They are low cost but not bare bones low cost.  I don’t think that they offer ridiculously low fares as do Ryannair. > Then Westjet is not a true ‘Next Generation’ low cost carrier.

Not a bare bones one. But consider Westjet, when it expand beyond its original small playing field in the Alberta/BC, started to have much longer duration flights. Montreal Vancouver is 5 hours. Does Ryannair have 5 hour flights ? > Entering in to an interline agreement with another carrier immediately > brings restrictions to your operations that wouldn’t otherwise be > there.

You are thinking about conventional interlining. Some sort of interlining agreement between low cost carriers would not necessarily bring in restrictions. Luggage transfers are Stanstead is not needed due to the need to go through customers anyways. So interlining might just mean Southwest acting as a sales agent to Easyjet and possibly issuing Easyjet boading passes. This would actually reduce costs at Easyjet who wouldn’t have to process those pax at the check-in counters. And interlining between 2 low cost carriers does not necessarily require any responsability to pay hotels etc should a connection be missed. It woudl essentially be justy a way for each carriers to publish fares that combine multiple tickets, just as they currently do when they sell you connecting flights.

Response:

> Apparently Southwest even give you a free

drink, and don’t they have > some sort of FF program as well, and allow

on-line connections? Some think that WN’s FF program is the most generous in the industry.  WN used to have a slogan "the company plane" which emphasized their goal of moderate walkup fares and good frequency to attract business fliers. > Yes. They are low cost but not bare bones low

cost.  I don’t think that they > offer ridiculously low fares as do Ryannair.

WN is not always the lowest lowest price carrier. But they seem to be eating the legacy carriers’ lunch with their moderate walkup fares and no-Saturday-night-stay rules.  Delta has just given in and is adopting WN’s "formula".    Will it work for DL or will they just be foregoing the few high-priced tickets which are slowing down the rate at which they are sinking? Re: Ryanair – do they have an extra charge for seatbacks that recline? Or are all their seats fixed-back these days?

Response:

Hi! > (Note > however that if a pax arrives at Stanstead from north america, he’ll have to > pickup luggage and clear customs/immigration, so interlining may not really be > possible to begin with.).

Not if continuing to a different country. brgds — Gunter Herrmann Naples, Florida, USA

Response:

>Southwest had some sort of cooperative agreement >with Icelandair [transatlantic] at Baltimore some >years ago.  One presumes it wasn’t thought to be a >success.

That must have recently been terminated. I know I saw a reference to it on the Southwest web site within the past year, but I don’t see anything there now.

Response:

>> Low-cost carriers – interline – Ryanair? > Real low-cost carriers don’t even offer on-line connections, and > wouldn’t dream of interlining. It would be in total contradiction with > Ryanair’s business model to even contemplate such a move. >When your fares are low enough, you don’t need to interline. Just buy two >separate tickets. If the two "cooperating" carriers operate out of the same >terminal, then switching from Southwest to Easyjet or Ryannair wouldn’t be >very different than switching between two Southwest flights at Chicago Midway.

Don’t Southwest make through bookings? Do they not let you to check-in for both flights together? Do they not then take some responsibility for missed connections? There is nothing to stop you booking  2 FR flights, but they do not, and never will make through bookings, or check you in for onward flights, and if the first one is late and you miss the second, they take no responsibility whatsoever. And this policy has led to their great success. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

>> to do so, their long-haul networks wiould die otherwise. Equally there > is no way true low-cost carriers like Ryanair are going to get > involved in any through-checking, interlining nonsense. >Actually, I woudln’t be so sure about that.

You haven’t flown with them, haven’t seen their oeprations first hand. Believe me, they won’t. >Consider Southwest that will CODE SHARE with ATA.  Just because the way legacy >carriers implemented interlining ended yp costing a lot of money doesn’t mean >that low cost carriers might not find a cheap way to implement it amongst themselves.

But Southwest is old school. They pioneered the idea, but things have moved on with the low-cost carriers you find in Europe and Asia. Apparently Southwest even give you a free drink, and don’t they have some sort of FF program as well, and allow on-line connections? That would not work as a low-cost carrier in the European market. ‘Next Generation’ low cost carriers cut out everything apart from transport from A to B in accordance with prevailing safety requirements. The tables have really turned, and these days there is more competition is Europe, and greater freedom to compete in Europe than in the US, which is why you find so much more variety in the products on offer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Look at what happened when Canadian airlines went belly up in Canada. Air >Canada raised its Y fares to ridiculous levels and then has other fares such >as Y2 with the previous Y fares. The net result is that because interlining >rules used the pure Y fare to calculate how much Air Canada could charge >British Airways to carry a pax from Toronto to Winnipeg, It ended up costing >megabucks to british airways to interline with Air Canada and often ended up >being much cheaper for the pax to buy separate tickets. >Clearly, Air Canada was out to sabotage interlining as to not help competitors >in its then monopoly situation. >Consider that Westjet is in negotiations to interline with Cathay Pacific. I >am sure they must be a cost effective way to interline which won’t make all of >Westjet inefficient. >So, Westjet charges a few extra bucks to Catahy to pay for the extra manpower >required to transfer pax/luggage. But that would still be peanuts, and it >wouldn’t negatively impact th rest of westjet operations. >Where there is a will, there is a way.

Then Westjet is not a true ‘Next Generation’ low cost carrier. Entering in to an interline agreement with another carrier immediately brings restrictions to your operations that wouldn’t otherwise be there. Of course it may also bring extra passengers, added revenue, but the likes of Ryanair would not put themselves in that position, they are a phenomenal success because of the way they do business, because they avoid complications such as interlining, or even on-line transfers. >Ryannair is willing to put coin operated overhead lockers, or pay toilets or >make you pay for icecubes in your drink. They surely woudl be willing to >charge a few bucks to interline luggage etc as a convenience for pax. (Note >however that if a pax arrives at Stanstead from north america, he’ll have to >pickup luggage and clear customs/immigration, so interlining may not really be >possible to begin  with..

Charging for on board services doesn’t hinder a smooth operation, making some sort of commitment to other airlines and their passengers potentially does. Their whole operation is geared to doing things their way, they are not going to risk that for a few extra passengers that they just don’t need. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > very potent "club" of low cost carriers making it really cheap for > pax to move > > across the pond. > Very true.  I’m surprised the low-fare carriers haven’t attempted > Transatlantic.  I’m also surprised they don’t attempt to interline a > little.  For example, Canada’s Westjet could interline into Southwest’s > network and flights from North America could interline into Ryanair in > Dublin. >The lowcost carriers don’t interline at all – they won’t even check >you/your bags through on their own airline’s next flight.  Each sector is >treated separately, and that’s why they’re lowcost. >There are some semi-lowcost carriers who operate transatlantic.  Air >Transat and Zoom spring to mind.  Aer Lingus has also become lowcost in >almost all but name (however it’s still trying to keep the market it has, >and *is* checking passengers and bags through to other EI flights). >Hilary

I do think there is still a wolrd of difference between real low-cost carriers, and what the likes of Aer Lingus, Swiss, and to some extent KLM and others are doing to reduce costs by reducing service levels to compete with point to point low cost carriers. As you say they all maintain the other aspects of full service carriers, and will continue to do so, their long-haul networks wiould die otherwise. Equally there is no way true low-cost carriers like Ryanair are going to get involved in any through-checking, interlining nonsense. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

> to do so, their long-haul networks wiould die otherwise. Equally there > is no way true low-cost carriers like Ryanair are going to get > involved in any through-checking, interlining nonsense.

Actually, I woudln’t be so sure about that. Consider Southwest that will CODE SHARE with ATA.  Just because the way legacy carriers implemented interlining ended yp costing a lot of money doesn’t mean that low cost carriers might not find a cheap way to implement it amongst themselves. Look at what happened when Canadian airlines went belly up in Canada. Air Canada raised its Y fares to ridiculous levels and then has other fares such as Y2 with the previous Y fares. The net result is that because interlining rules used the pure Y fare to calculate how much Air Canada could charge British Airways to carry a pax from Toronto to Winnipeg, It ended up costing megabucks to british airways to interline with Air Canada and often ended up being much cheaper for the pax to buy separate tickets. Clearly, Air Canada was out to sabotage interlining as to not help competitors in its then monopoly situation. Consider that Westjet is in negotiations to interline with Cathay Pacific. I am sure they must be a cost effective way to interline which won’t make all of Westjet inefficient. So, Westjet charges a few extra bucks to Catahy to pay for the extra manpower required to transfer pax/luggage. But that would still be peanuts, and it wouldn’t negatively impact th rest of westjet operations. Where there is a will, there is a way. Ryannair is willing to put coin operated overhead lockers, or pay toilets or make you pay for icecubes in your drink. They surely woudl be willing to charge a few bucks to interline luggage etc as a convenience for pax. (Note however that if a pax arrives at Stanstead from north america, he’ll have to pickup luggage and clear customs/immigration, so interlining may not really be possible to begin with.).

Response:

> Low-cost carriers – interline – Ryanair? > Real low-cost carriers don’t even offer on-line connections, and > wouldn’t dream of interlining. It would be in total contradiction with > Ryanair’s business model to even contemplate such a move.

When your fares are low enough, you don’t need to interline. Just buy two separate tickets. If the two "cooperating" carriers operate out of the same terminal, then switching from Southwest to Easyjet or Ryannair wouldn’t be very different than switching between two Southwest flights at Chicago Midway.

Response:

> very potent "club" of low cost carriers making it really cheap for > pax to move > across the pond. > Very true.  I’m surprised the low-fare carriers haven’t attempted > Transatlantic.  I’m also surprised they don’t attempt to interline a > little.  For example, Canada’s Westjet could interline into Southwest’s > network and flights from North America could interline into Ryanair in > Dublin. > I’m too lazy to google it up, but could an ETOPS 737 cross the > Atlantic?  (I know Air Pacific operates three-sevens from Fiji to > Vancouver via Hawaii.)

Lufthansa have flown Germany – USA for some time on a wet-leased Boeing business jet (737 family) and, latterly, with an Airbus A319. Anyone wanting to set up a commercial relationship with Ryanair would, imo, be certifiable! JohnTu

Response:

>> very potent "club" of low cost carriers making it really cheap for >pax to move > across the pond. >Very true.  I’m surprised the low-fare carriers haven’t attempted >Transatlantic.  I’m also surprised they don’t attempt to interline a >little.  For example, Canada’s Westjet could interline into Southwest’s >network and flights from North America could interline into Ryanair in >Dublin.

Low-cost carriers – interline – Ryanair? Real low-cost carriers don’t even offer on-line connections, and wouldn’t dream of interlining. It would be in total contradiction with Ryanair’s business model to even contemplate such a move. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

The Hammering You Hear…. is probably Southwest driving the final nails in US Airways’ coffin. Today WN announced that they would be starting service to Pittsburgh in May 2005.

Response:

> Today WN announced that they would be starting > service to Pittsburgh in May 2005.

I think that the worse case scenario for US Air will be similar to ATA. US Air will continue to operate while the process of selling its assets proceeds. In the end, US Air may be a small airline, or its remains may simply be too endebted to survive, but the impact on travellers may not be so bad if WN or Jetblue step in. Now, watch out if Southwest or Jetblue get US Air to continue to exist with just its international flights which would be turned into low cost operations that are fed and feed into the domestic low cost networks. People would detour via PHL if it meant they saved $100 or more on a transtlantic fare. In fact, move the flight to Stanstead and hookup with easyjet there and you’re have a very potent "club" of low cost carriers making it really cheap for pax to move across the pond.

Response:

> very potent "club" of low cost carriers making it really cheap for pax to move > across the pond.

Very true.  I’m surprised the low-fare carriers haven’t attempted Transatlantic.  I’m also surprised they don’t attempt to interline a little.  For example, Canada’s Westjet could interline into Southwest’s network and flights from North America could interline into Ryanair in Dublin. I’m too lazy to google it up, but could an ETOPS 737 cross the Atlantic?  (I know Air Pacific operates three-sevens from Fiji to Vancouver via Hawaii.) Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada

Response:

Question:

ABOUT US: We are 55 and 60 years old, and have traveled extensively. We took the Westbound Transatlantic crossing of the Opera in Nov., 2004, starting in Genoa, Italy and ending in Ft. Lauderdale. This was our 7th cruise together. ABOUT THE SHIP: If you have a specific idea of what cruising should be like, with a thousand detailed requirements, you will not enjoy this ship. It does not offer the same experience as Carnival, Royal Caribbean or Norwegian and probably never will. If, on the other hand, you find the interplay of cultures fascinating, and find differences stimulating instead of just "wrong," you’ll have a wonderful time. MSC is an Italian company. They are the second largest cargo line in the world and are relatively new to the cruise market so there are some good values to be had. At least half of the passengers on our ocean crossing were Europeans and the blessedly few PA announcements were in five languages: English, German, Italian, French and Spanish. Service personnel must function in most of these languages. Some do this better than others, but all seemed pleasant and patient. The MSC Opera is new and is a sleek greyhound. It was designed for the luxury trade before the decision was made to pursue the budget end of the market. The interiors are quietly elegant in dark blues, smoky plums, corals and creams. There’s no art in particular but the lighting fixtures are well designed like big sculptures. The ship lacks glass-sided elevators, high atriums and Vegas-style metallic glitz, but makes up for it by being really comfortable, human-scaled like a good European hotel. Lots of small places to settle in. Lots of glass and views of the sea. We had an inside cabin. It was not the largest we’ve been in, but the mirror layout was the best we’ve seen, giving more light and sense of space than we expected. The bathroom was equally well-planned, generously sized with an excellent shower. Water heat and pressure were both good. The smaller of the two restaurants, L’approdo, is a jewel box of red and pink. The larger restaurant, La Caravella, is very sophisticated in green, cream and yellow, with lots of columns and divisions so it seems more intimate than its size would indicate. There is a cafeteria on the top deck with indoor and outdoor seating. The top deck also has two pools and is very lively. There is often an excitable host screaming in 4 or 5 languages, running incomprehensible games and contests with enthusiastic passengers, Europop blaring on the speakers. If you want quiet, there are lounge chairs on the Boat Deck most days and also at the stern of many of the cabin decks. ABOUT THE FOOD: Extraordinarily good. Northern Italian. We were on for 17 days and they didn’t miss on a pasta or risotto once. Good pizza, superb homemade ice cream, excellent bread, good soup. We found the meat entrees a little lacking but others singled them out as exceptional. You could always get a grilled sirloin or chicken if you didn’t like the chef’s entrees. The cakes were of the baba au rhum variety. Very airy and not much chocolate, but plenty of variety. Lots of salads and fresh fruit, plus fresh fruit in the rooms. The waiters are Italian and joke a little heavily at first and not always successfully in an attempt to charm you. On the whole they are very good. When I expressed a preference for ice tea and breadsticks rather than rolls, I found them waiting every night. Luigi was an excellent waiter, Mario and Carlo excellent maitre’d’s (and Sylvie was a superb cabin steward too.) MSC has a policy that you don’t have to tip if you don’t want to. This is churlish, the staff deserves it, they work hard. We followed the policy we have always followed. We ignored management’s guidelines and tipped what we wanted to and felt was appropriate. THE BEST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: The intimacy and sheer livability of the ship are the main virtues for us, but one of the most civilized things is that they allow you to get duty free liquor and open it and consume it in your room. They don’t seal it for the voyage so you’ll order more from the bars like many lines do. THE WORST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: There are two really bad things about the ship: 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light up. Some Americans complained to the offenders but many of the smokers didn’t speak English, so it was futile. We never saw staff do anything to enforce the no-smoking areas. I am asthmatic and suffer from smoke, but I was able to get away from it OK. Judge for yourself whether it makes a difference to you. 2) MANAGEMENT: Charming but utterly chaotic. Generally inefficient and sometimes maddeningly so and in odd ways. The loading of the ship in Genoa, for example, was the most efficient I have ever seen. You checked in, reserved your dining table, and booked your shore excursions in one very smooth line. But once on board, both the purser’s and excursion desks were uninformed and uncoordinated. For example, we tried to book a transfer from the dock to Ft. Lauderdale airport. Reception said Shore Excursions handled that, Shore Excursions said Reception handled that, they bounced us back and forth, called each other and yelled into the phone. We eventually did get to the airport and make our flight, but a little more coordination would have worked wonders with the experience. Similarly the 24 hour internet service broke down periodically because the satellite gave them problems. Nobody had any idea when it would be fixed. There is a technician on board but service remained unreliable. Our two valiant American hostesses, Amanda and Vanessa, bravely took a barrage of passenger criticism, justified and otherwise, and relayed the complaints to management. Often the response from the bridge was an automatic "no," but then the problem would be mysteriously solved 24 hours later. THE PEOPLE ON BOARD: The Americans on board this repositioning cruise were largely retired people, many from Florida. They are very experienced budget cruisers. They have taken every line and they have very set expectations about what they like and want from a cruise. When they don’t get what they are used to from Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc., they don’t perceive this European ship as different, they perceive it as WRONG! This makes some of them very hostile.   For example, there are only small cups of ice water on a hot day. Not spigots of iced tea or fruit juice like on other ships. There is iced tea but only in the dining rooms. Not in the cafeteria or on the outdoor patio. This one thing made a lot of people hostile. (Until management gets around to this one, bring a tall insulated mug and make your own). We were told there is little music for ballroom dancing at night. Only disco (I guess their Mediterranean cruises have more young people -Europeans have longer vacations than us and the American passengers skewed older). There are movies on the TV but they are dubbed in many languages. And the English-language originals are often not on at convenient times, nor are the schedules reliable. "Welcome to Mooseport" loses something when dubbed in German (I’m not kidding). And some passengers just don’t like it when they are so many people on board that they can’t talk to, and they grow impatient when instructions have to be translated. Also, some cultures are trained to get on line, while others just crowd in, which makes for conflict. If management would put rope lines like a bank in front of the reception counter, that might defuse a lot of bad feeling. We read some hostile reviews of this ship and its sister ship, the Lirica before we booked this, but we must say we enjoyed the experience thoroughly and found it a phenomenal value. You just have to know what you are getting in to. SHOPS: Very tasteful and very expensive, which made no sense at all. The shops were one part of the ship not recalibrated for budget cruising. The stock was entirely for the European market, the wrong weight clothing and not even in American sizes. They didn’t sell bottles of aspirin or Tylenol, but did sell several kinds of expensive anti-cellulite cream. Considering the average age and needs of the Caribbean cruisers this is pretty odd. Also, one lone bottle of SPF sunblock shared shelf space with plentiful supplies of old-fashioned tanning butter. If they sold some insulated mugs with the ship’s logo, they’d clean up and stop the no iced tea hostility, but they are not yet that sensible. The $350 dollar sweaters didn’t sell even at 50% off. When the temperature outside went to 90 degrees, people wanted tee shirts. They only had a few, they were expensive and for sale only in the liquor store! A simple $29 item in the jewelry shop would have sold out. But they didn’t have anything at all in that category. SHORE EXCURSIONS: The stops on our crossing were: Barcelona, Casablanca, Funchal, Barbados, Antigua, Tortola, St. Maarten, and Nassau. Generally well run. Remember to bring Euros for Barcelona and Funchal (not all the Americans on board did). The ship charges 3 percent to change money. This includes 3 percent to cash travelers checks which is a bum deal. They’re supposed to be cash. The full day excursion to Marrakesh from Casablanca which includes a 4 hour bus trip both ways is exhausting but sooo worth it! Don’t miss this one. In Madeira, we found riding a wicker … read more »

Response:

ervice remained unreliable. > Our two valiant American hostesses, Amanda and Vanessa, bravely took a > barrage of passenger criticism, justified and otherwise, and relayed > the complaints to management. Often the response from the bridge was > an automatic "no," but then the problem would be mysteriously solved > 24 hours later.

I will be sure to relay that message to Vanessa and her roomate Amanda Not that I am a proud father or anything! > HOPE FOR THE FUTURE: > MSC has hired management from American cruise lines to explain > American cruise culture to them, so improvement should be swift. They > are really trying hard. But we don’t expect they’ll ever be "plain > vanilla." If you like, by all means give them a try, but only if you > understand going in it’s going to be different, and that’s not a bad > thing.

Thank you for what sounds like a balanced and honest review, It meshes with what I saw on board and what my daugther (the aforementioned Vanessa) said about her experience on the crossing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Am I correct in understanding that "Opera" does have lounge chairs on promenade deck?  That is my favorite place to sit on any cruise and a ship without a beautiful promenade with comfortable seating is no high on my list.   I would love to try the "Opera" and wish MSC the very best of luck. Rick

Response:

> ABOUT US: We are 55 and 60 years old, and have traveled extensively. > We took the Westbound Transatlantic crossing of the Opera in Nov., > 2004, starting in Genoa, Italy and ending in Ft. Lauderdale. This was > our 7th cruise together.

 > Absolutely great and well rounded review!  Thank you.  I’ll be sailing on MSC OPERA next month and I’m really counting on something different than the mainstream American cruise lines.  It sounds like MSC might just be the ticket.  All the things that annoyed the demanding Florida passengers I will take in stride.  I don’t let the small things get to me, and it sounds like you don’t as well.  I think the most successful travelers are those that can roll with the punches and enjoy experiences that are different rather than the same.  Isn’t that the point of traveling anyway?  Too bad many American cruisers have gotten used to getting their way and having their hand held. It makes for some very unfriendly people  …. and we have all come across them on cruises. One thing …. MSC Cruises does not plan to be a budget line in the US. Their prices are on the budget level now to attract customers since they are relatively unknown.  They plan to offer a premium product with an Italian flair that will be a notch above Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and NCL.  I imagine we will see their prices rise as they infiltrate the market and offer an alternative to Holland America and Celebrity. Thanks again for the review! Ernie

Response:

> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up.

Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC anytime soon. — Charles

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up. > Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC > anytime soon. > —

Maybe Rick Sasso will get the message. –Tom

Response:

Thanks for posting your cruise review, I enjoyed reading it. You are a good writer, every entertaining. Many people may want to try this ship, but I am afraid the smoking problem will keep a lot of people away.  OTOH, it may attract a few smokers. Becca  <—–avoids smoke when I can… MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/ Miracle in May http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm Canada – New England http://www.cruisemaster.com/carnivalFall.htm Caribbean Princess http://www.cruisemaster.com/caribprin.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they >> aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning >> smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the >> restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non >> smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the >> cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night >> (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were >> fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking >> area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed >> corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light >> up. > Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC > anytime soon. > — > Maybe Rick Sasso will get the message. > –Tom

The cruises originating from the US will have a much higher percentage of Americans and Canadians which automatically means less smokers.  I would imagine there will be no more smokers than on a typical Carnival cruise. I also hope Rick Sasso doesn’t "Americanize" the product to the point where it’s just another Princess or Royal Caribbean.  I think that would defeat the entire marketing strategy. MSC is definitely for people looking for something beyond the mainstream. Ernie

Response:

> The cruises originating from the US will have a much higher percentage of > Americans and Canadians which automatically means less smokers.  I would > imagine there will be no more smokers than on a typical Carnival cruise.

Maybe. A counter example would be Costa. It has somewhat similiar origins and from the reviews I have read of their Caribbean sailings there are more smokers than other cruise lines. Also If the Carnival cruise I was on in October is typical then a typical Carnival cruise has more second hand smoke. — Charles

Response:

> Maybe. A counter example would be Costa. It has somewhat similiar > origins and from the reviews I have read of their Caribbean sailings > there are more smokers than other cruise lines. Also If the Carnival > cruise I was on in October is typical then a typical Carnival cruise > has more second hand smoke. > — > Charles

My Carnival cruises have typically had more smokers than other cruise lines I have sailed, which is why I used them as an example.  MSC sailing from the US will probably have smoker’s in the same quantity as Carnival.  For me personally, this is nothing that would stop me from sailing Carnival or MSC. I’m traveling with my mom and some friends on MSC OPERA, and my mom is a smoker so I know she will be happy. Ernie

Response:

> My Carnival cruises have typically had more smokers than other cruise lines > I have sailed, which is why I used them as an example.  MSC sailing from the > US will probably have smoker’s in the same quantity as Carnival.  For me > personally, this is nothing that would stop me from sailing Carnival or MSC. > I’m traveling with my mom and some friends on MSC OPERA, and my mom is a > smoker so I know she will be happy.

Okay. I was not sure if Carnival typically has more smokers or there was just more smoke on the one Carnival sailing. I can live with some second hand smoke, like what I have encountered on Celebrity, Princess and RCI. The amount I encountered on Carnival was over my personal threshold, so if it turns out MSC has the same quantity as Carnival I won’t book it. — Charles

Response:

The review was quite good. My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. Smoking was not a problem in most areas. The outside patio area had most of the smokers. There is no smoking in the 2 main show lounges, the dining rooms or on the port side of the ship. Ship:  Very nice. Service: At the start of the cruise, Poor. At the end of the cruise, GOOD As the other reviewer noted, they have a few things to work out. THEY WERE TRYING. This was the 1st caribbean cruise from Fort Lauderdale. I had expected some problems with service. This is normal. I was on the 1st cruise of the Mariner of the Seas. It was not as good as the Operas 1st cruise. The food in the dining rooms was Very Good. The Buffet was Fair to Poor  It also was not opened every night. Has to be improved! The Casino:  2 Blackjack tables, 1 Caribbean Stud Table & 1 Holdem Table. 3 Roulette wheels. and Slot machines.  VERY SMALL, No Dice table. It also was only open from 2:30 to 6:30 and 8:30 till 1AM. Shows were excellent. Some of the best I ever saw. Cabins are very nice, Shower is small. On a scale of 1 to 10, it is a 7.  I would go back anytime. Brent

Response:

Terrific review, thanks. Sue

Response:

>The review was quite good. >My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. >Smoking was not a problem in most areas. >The outside patio area had most of the smokers. >There is no smoking in the 2 main show lounges, the dining rooms or on the >port side of the ship.

Someone else remarked that smokers did not adhere to that stated policy. What did you observe?  Did the outside smokers stay on the smoking side or do I have to be prepared to punch out their lights if I sail on the Opera?

Response:

> The review was quite good. > My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. > Smoking was not a problem in most areas. > The outside patio area had most of the smokers.

By your description, smoking is only a problem if you want to go outside. How about a show of hands? How many people like to go out on th e deck during a cruise?

Response:

>> The review was quite good. > My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. > Smoking was not a problem in most areas. > The outside patio area had most of the smokers. >By your description, smoking is only a problem if you want to go >outside. How about a show of hands? How many people like to go out on th >e deck during a cruise?

me, me, me, me, and we, we, we, we.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up. >Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC >anytime soon.

Same for us.  No MSC cruises as long as they don’t maintain lots of smokefree areas, including out on deck.   It’s a shame, because we are enjoy opportunities to mix and mingle with folks of other nations.  And foreign languages are no obstacle, either.  Between us we have several languages in which we are fluent and we are well-travelled. It’s not fair or truthful to say that Europeans "smoke like chimneys". Certain segments of some European countries include more smokers, and speaking from experience, that would likely include budget cruisers.   I lived and studied among well-educated upper middle-class Germans, Austrians, Dutch and Belgians and not even one of them smoked.  Neither did most of the other Europeans I knew well.   We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere else in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much smoking. Do we cruise less often because of this?  Yep, you betcha.

Response:

> We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere else > in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much smoking.

I think there are somewhat more smokers on cruises than the percentage who smoke in the general population and it probably is because cruise ships are one of the last refuges of smokers. — Charles

Response:

> We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere > else > in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much > smoking. > I think there are somewhat more smokers on cruises than the percentage > who smoke in the general population and it probably is because cruise > ships are one of the last refuges of smokers. > —

Also, it could be more of a "pattern of behavior" type place.  Many people who don’t smoke regularly, or at least not frequently during the day, may find themselves in night clubs, discos, casinos, etc., each evening, where smoking is more frequently found.  They get caught in the cycle and end up smoking both day and night during the cruise. –Tom

Response:

>>> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they >> aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning >> smoking. >It’s not fair or truthful to say that Europeans "smoke like chimneys". >Certain segments of some European countries include more smokers, and speaking >from experience, that would likely include budget cruisers.   I lived and >studied among well-educated upper middle-class Germans, Austrians, Dutch and >Belgians and not even one of them smoked.  Neither did most of the other >Europeans I knew well.  

It is entirely fair and truthful to say that Europeans "smoke like chimneys," as people active in international campaigns to reduce smoking in public places can tell you. People who sailed on the Opera repositioning cruise can offer anecdotal support to the medical statistics, and we did. This doesn’t make us untruthful, it means that our experience was not what one writer expected. Our chimney-like characterization applies to offices, restaurants and public places in general. If one is fortunate enough to have spent time among a handful of European non-smokers, congratulations, so have we. Nonetheless, from a public policy point of view, the trends are clear – many European countries are way behind us in recognizing the harm in second-hand smoke, and doing anything about it. On our repositioning cruise, there were some areas of the Opera, like the restaurants, where smoking was not allowed and the prohibition was observed. There were other areas of the ship where the non-smoking signs were disregarded. If, as seems from Brent Stell’s excellent review, this is less of a problem with the winter-season Caribbean-only cruises, that’s good news. My wife is asthmatic and can’t tolerate tobacco smoke. We always found ways of working around it on our crossing, and it should be even easier now. We didn’t have room in our review to mention that you can request a non-smoker’s cabin, so you don’t have to deal with fumes from a previous passenger. If you are a militant non-smoker, as we are, don’t eliminate the Opera from consideration for that one reason. The entire ship is cleaner than most, and tobacco was a manageable problem. As a work-in-progress, I’m sure that over time the ship will become progressively more considerate to non-smokers. Dave

Response:

>We didn’t have room in our review to mention that you can request a >non-smoker’s cabin, so you don’t have to deal with fumes from a >previous passenger.

You had room to classify and entire continent of people when you said that Europeans "smoke like chimneys," yet you could not fit into your review the very important and welcome news that there is a ship that has non-smoking cabins on it?  Check the size of your sentences.  You DID have room.   OK, it was your review, your choice, but that tidbit of information is one I would not have left out.  I am glad to now learn that the MSC Opera has some cabins that don’t reek of smoke.  Hopefully, there are many, spread across a wide assortment of cabin types and locations, including the most coveted. I enjoyed your review, in general.  Like you, we do not tolerate smoke well, and we patronize places where we can avoid it.  If MSC can provide a unique cruise experience and polices their own stated "no smoking" areas, we’ll be happy to give the line a chance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere >> else >> in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much >> smoking. > I think there are somewhat more smokers on cruises than the percentage > who smoke in the general population and it probably is because cruise > ships are one of the last refuges of smokers. > — >Also, it could be more of a "pattern of behavior" type place.  Many people >who don’t smoke regularly, or at least not frequently during the day, may >find themselves in night clubs, discos, casinos, etc., each evening, where >smoking is more frequently found.  They get caught in the cycle and end >up  smoking both day and night during the cruise.

Kind of like werewolves get caught in the cycle of a full moon?

Response:

> Nonetheless, from a public policy point of view, the trends are clear > – many European countries are way behind us in recognizing the harm

They know about it. > in > second-hand smoke, and doing anything about it.

Is a different thing.

Response:

Certainly this is true to some extent….I know a lot of social smokers who never smoke but may have 1 or 2 in a disco, etc. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Also, it could be more of a "pattern of behavior" type place.  Many people > who don’t smoke regularly, or at least not frequently during the day, may > find themselves in night clubs, discos, casinos, etc., each evening, where > smoking is more frequently found.  They get caught in the cycle and end up > smoking both day and night during the cruise. > –Tom

Response:

Please email me about your review. Thanks, Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ABOUT US: We are 55 and 60 years old, and have traveled extensively. > We took the Westbound Transatlantic crossing of the Opera in Nov., > 2004, starting in Genoa, Italy and ending in Ft. Lauderdale. This was > our 7th cruise together. > ABOUT THE SHIP: If you have a specific idea of what cruising should be > like, with a thousand detailed requirements, you will not enjoy this > ship. It does not offer the same experience as Carnival, Royal > Caribbean or Norwegian and probably never will. If, on the other hand, > you find the interplay of cultures fascinating, and find differences > stimulating instead of just "wrong," you’ll have a wonderful time. > MSC is an Italian company. They are the second largest cargo line in > the world and are relatively new to the cruise market so there are > some good values to be had. > At least half of the passengers on our ocean crossing were Europeans > and the blessedly few PA announcements were in five languages: > English, German, Italian, French and Spanish. Service personnel must > function in most of these languages. Some do this better than others, > but all seemed pleasant and patient. > The MSC Opera is new and is a sleek greyhound. It was designed for the > luxury trade before the decision was made to pursue the budget end of > the market. The interiors are quietly elegant in dark blues, smoky > plums, corals and creams. There’s no art in particular but the > lighting fixtures are well designed like big sculptures. The ship > lacks glass-sided elevators, high atriums and Vegas-style metallic > glitz, but makes up for it by being really comfortable, human-scaled > like a good European hotel. Lots of small places to settle in. Lots of > glass and views of the sea. > We had an inside cabin. It was not the largest we’ve been in, but the > mirror layout was the best we’ve seen, giving more light and sense of > space than we expected. The bathroom was equally well-planned, > generously sized with an excellent shower. Water heat and pressure > were both good. > The smaller of the two restaurants, L’approdo, is a jewel box of red > and pink. The larger restaurant, La Caravella, is very sophisticated > in green, cream and yellow, with lots of columns and divisions so it > seems more intimate than its size would indicate. > There is a cafeteria on the top deck with indoor and outdoor > seating. The top deck also has two pools and is very lively. There > is often an excitable host screaming in 4 or 5 languages, running > incomprehensible games and contests with enthusiastic passengers, > Europop blaring on the speakers. If you want quiet, there are lounge > chairs on the Boat Deck most days and also at the stern of many of the > cabin decks. > ABOUT THE FOOD: Extraordinarily good. Northern Italian. We were on for > 17 days and they didn’t miss on a pasta or risotto once. Good pizza, > superb homemade ice cream, excellent bread, good soup. We found the > meat entrees a little lacking but others singled them out as > exceptional. You could always get a grilled sirloin or chicken if you > didn’t like the chef’s entrees. > The cakes were of the baba au rhum variety. Very airy and not > much chocolate, but plenty of variety. Lots of salads and fresh fruit, > plus fresh fruit in the rooms. > The waiters are Italian and joke a little heavily at first and > not always successfully in an attempt to charm you. On the whole they > are very good. When I expressed a preference for ice tea > and breadsticks rather than rolls, I found them waiting every > night. Luigi was an excellent waiter, Mario and Carlo excellent > maitre’d’s (and Sylvie was a superb cabin steward too.) > MSC has a policy that you don’t have to tip if you don’t want to. > This is churlish, the staff deserves it, they work hard. We followed > the policy we have always followed. We ignored management’s > guidelines and tipped what we wanted to and felt was appropriate. > THE BEST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: The intimacy and sheer livability of > the ship are the main virtues for us, but one of the most civilized > things is that they allow you to get duty free liquor and open it and > consume it in your room. They don’t seal it for the voyage so you’ll > order more from the bars like many lines do. > THE WORST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: There are two really bad things about > the ship: > 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up. > Some Americans complained to the offenders but many of the smokers > didn’t speak English, so it was futile. We never saw staff do anything > to enforce the no-smoking areas. I am asthmatic and suffer from smoke, > but I was able to get away from it OK. Judge for yourself whether it > makes a difference to you. > 2) MANAGEMENT: Charming but utterly chaotic. Generally inefficient and > sometimes maddeningly so and in odd ways. The loading of the ship in > Genoa, for example, was the most efficient I have ever seen. You > checked in, reserved your dining table, and booked your shore > excursions in one very smooth line. But once on board, both the > purser’s and excursion desks were uninformed and uncoordinated. > For example, we tried to book a transfer from the dock to Ft. > Lauderdale airport. Reception said Shore Excursions handled that, > Shore Excursions said Reception handled that, they bounced us back and > forth, called each other and yelled into the phone. We eventually did > get to the airport and make our flight, but a little more coordination > would have worked wonders with the experience. > Similarly the 24 hour internet service broke down periodically because > the satellite gave them problems. Nobody had any idea when it would be > fixed. There is a technician on board but service remained unreliable. > Our two valiant American hostesses, Amanda and Vanessa, bravely took a > barrage of passenger criticism, justified and otherwise, and relayed > the complaints to management. Often the response from the bridge was > an automatic "no," but then the problem would be mysteriously solved > 24 hours later. > THE PEOPLE ON BOARD: The Americans on board this repositioning cruise > were largely retired people, many from Florida. They are very > experienced budget cruisers. They have taken every line and they have > very set expectations about what they like and want from a cruise. > When they don’t get what they are used to from Carnival, Royal > Caribbean, etc., they don’t perceive this European ship as different, > they perceive it as WRONG! This makes some of them very hostile.   > For example, there are only small cups of ice water on a hot day. > Not spigots of iced tea or fruit juice like on other ships. There is > iced tea but only in the dining rooms. Not in the cafeteria or on the > outdoor patio. This one thing made a lot of people hostile. (Until > management gets around to this one, bring a tall insulated mug and > make your own). > We were told there is little music for ballroom dancing at night. Only > disco (I guess their Mediterranean cruises have more young people > -Europeans have longer vacations than us and the American passengers > skewed older). > There are movies on the TV but they are dubbed in many languages. And > the English-language originals are often not on at convenient times, > nor are the schedules reliable. "Welcome to Mooseport" loses something > when dubbed in German (I’m not kidding). > And some passengers just don’t like it when they are so many people > on board that they can’t talk to, and they grow impatient when > instructions have to be translated. Also, some cultures are trained to > get on line, while others just crowd in, which makes for conflict. If > management would put rope lines like a bank in front of the reception > counter, that might defuse a lot of bad feeling. > We read some hostile reviews of this ship and its sister ship, > the Lirica before we booked this, but we must say we enjoyed the > experience thoroughly and found it a phenomenal value. You just have > to know what you are getting in to. > SHOPS: Very tasteful and very expensive, which made no sense at all. > The shops were one part of the ship not recalibrated for budget > cruising. The stock was entirely for the European market, the wrong > weight clothing and not even in American sizes. They didn’t sell > bottles of aspirin or Tylenol, but did sell several kinds of expensive > anti-cellulite cream. Considering the average age and needs of the > Caribbean cruisers this is pretty odd. Also, one lone bottle of SPF > sunblock shared shelf space with plentiful supplies of old-fashioned > tanning butter. > If they sold some insulated mugs with the ship’s logo, they’d clean up > and stop the no iced tea hostility, but they are not yet that > sensible. The $350 dollar sweaters didn’t sell even at 50% off. When > the temperature outside went to 90 degrees, people wanted tee shirts. > They only had a few, they were expensive and for sale only in the > liquor store! A simple $29 item in the jewelry shop would have sold > out. But they didn’t have anything at all in that category. > SHORE EXCURSIONS: The stops on our crossing were: Barcelona, > Casablanca, Funchal, Barbados, Antigua, Tortola, St. Maarten, and > Nassau. Generally

… read more »

Response:

ABOUT US: We are 55 and 60 years old, and have traveled extensively. We took the Westbound Transatlantic crossing of the Opera in Nov., 2004, starting in Genoa, Italy and ending in Ft. Lauderdale. This was our 7th cruise together. ABOUT THE SHIP: If you have a specific idea of what cruising should be like, with a thousand detailed requirements, you will not enjoy this ship. It does not offer the same experience as Carnival, Royal Caribbean or Norwegian and probably never will. If, on the other hand, you find the interplay of cultures fascinating, and find differences stimulating instead of just "wrong," you’ll have a wonderful time. MSC is an Italian company. They are the second largest cargo line in the world and are relatively new to the cruise market so there are some good values to be had. At least half of the passengers on our ocean crossing were Europeans and the blessedly few PA announcements were in five languages: English, German, Italian, French and Spanish. Service personnel must function in most of these languages. Some do this better than others, but all seemed pleasant and patient. The MSC Opera is new and is a sleek greyhound. It was designed for the luxury trade before the decision was made to pursue the budget end of the market. The interiors are quietly elegant in dark blues, smoky plums, corals and creams. There’s no art in particular but the lighting fixtures are well designed like big sculptures. The ship lacks glass-sided elevators, high atriums and Vegas-style metallic glitz, but makes up for it by being really comfortable, human-scaled like a good European hotel. Lots of small places to settle in. Lots of glass and views of the sea. We had an inside cabin. It was not the largest we’ve been in, but the mirror layout was the best we’ve seen, giving more light and sense of space than we expected. The bathroom was equally well-planned, generously sized with an excellent shower. Water heat and pressure were both good. The smaller of the two restaurants, L’approdo, is a jewel box of red and pink. The larger restaurant, La Caravella, is very sophisticated in green, cream and yellow, with lots of columns and divisions so it seems more intimate than its size would indicate. There is a cafeteria on the top deck with indoor and outdoor seating. The top deck also has two pools and is very lively. There is often an excitable host screaming in 4 or 5 languages, running incomprehensible games and contests with enthusiastic passengers, Europop blaring on the speakers. If you want quiet, there are lounge chairs on the Boat Deck most days and also at the stern of many of the cabin decks. ABOUT THE FOOD: Extraordinarily good. Northern Italian. We were on for 17 days and they didn’t miss on a pasta or risotto once. Good pizza, superb homemade ice cream, excellent bread, good soup. We found the meat entrees a little lacking but others singled them out as exceptional. You could always get a grilled sirloin or chicken if you didn’t like the chef’s entrees. The cakes were of the baba au rhum variety. Very airy and not much chocolate, but plenty of variety. Lots of salads and fresh fruit, plus fresh fruit in the rooms. The waiters are Italian and joke a little heavily at first and not always successfully in an attempt to charm you. On the whole they are very good. When I expressed a preference for ice tea and breadsticks rather than rolls, I found them waiting every night. Luigi was an excellent waiter, Mario and Carlo excellent maitre’d’s (and Sylvie was a superb cabin steward too.) MSC has a policy that you don’t have to tip if you don’t want to. This is churlish, the staff deserves it, they work hard. We followed the policy we have always followed. We ignored management’s guidelines and tipped what we wanted to and felt was appropriate. THE BEST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: The intimacy and sheer livability of the ship are the main virtues for us, but one of the most civilized things is that they allow you to get duty free liquor and open it and consume it in your room. They don’t seal it for the voyage so you’ll order more from the bars like many lines do. THE WORST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: There are two really bad things about the ship: 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light up. Some Americans complained to the offenders but many of the smokers didn’t speak English, so it was futile. We never saw staff do anything to enforce the no-smoking areas. I am asthmatic and suffer from smoke, but I was able to get away from it OK. Judge for yourself whether it makes a difference to you. 2) MANAGEMENT: Charming but utterly chaotic. Generally inefficient and sometimes maddeningly so and in odd ways. The loading of the ship in Genoa, for example, was the most efficient I have ever seen. You checked in, reserved your dining table, and booked your shore excursions in one very smooth line. But once on board, both the purser’s and excursion desks were uninformed and uncoordinated. For example, we tried to book a transfer from the dock to Ft. Lauderdale airport. Reception said Shore Excursions handled that, Shore Excursions said Reception handled that, they bounced us back and forth, called each other and yelled into the phone. We eventually did get to the airport and make our flight, but a little more coordination would have worked wonders with the experience. Similarly the 24 hour internet service broke down periodically because the satellite gave them problems. Nobody had any idea when it would be fixed. There is a technician on board but service remained unreliable. Our two valiant American hostesses, Amanda and Vanessa, bravely took a barrage of passenger criticism, justified and otherwise, and relayed the complaints to management. Often the response from the bridge was an automatic "no," but then the problem would be mysteriously solved 24 hours later. THE PEOPLE ON BOARD: The Americans on board this repositioning cruise were largely retired people, many from Florida. They are very experienced budget cruisers. They have taken every line and they have very set expectations about what they like and want from a cruise. When they don’t get what they are used to from Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc., they don’t perceive this European ship as different, they perceive it as WRONG! This makes some of them very hostile.   For example, there are only small cups of ice water on a hot day. Not spigots of iced tea or fruit juice like on other ships. There is iced tea but only in the dining rooms. Not in the cafeteria or on the outdoor patio. This one thing made a lot of people hostile. (Until management gets around to this one, bring a tall insulated mug and make your own). We were told there is little music for ballroom dancing at night. Only disco (I guess their Mediterranean cruises have more young people -Europeans have longer vacations than us and the American passengers skewed older). There are movies on the TV but they are dubbed in many languages. And the English-language originals are often not on at convenient times, nor are the schedules reliable. "Welcome to Mooseport" loses something when dubbed in German (I’m not kidding). And some passengers just don’t like it when they are so many people on board that they can’t talk to, and they grow impatient when instructions have to be translated. Also, some cultures are trained to get on line, while others just crowd in, which makes for conflict. If management would put rope lines like a bank in front of the reception counter, that might defuse a lot of bad feeling. We read some hostile reviews of this ship and its sister ship, the Lirica before we booked this, but we must say we enjoyed the experience thoroughly and found it a phenomenal value. You just have to know what you are getting in to. SHOPS: Very tasteful and very expensive, which made no sense at all. The shops were one part of the ship not recalibrated for budget cruising. The stock was entirely for the European market, the wrong weight clothing and not even in American sizes. They didn’t sell bottles of aspirin or Tylenol, but did sell several kinds of expensive anti-cellulite cream. Considering the average age and needs of the Caribbean cruisers this is pretty odd. Also, one lone bottle of SPF sunblock shared shelf space with plentiful supplies of old-fashioned tanning butter. If they sold some insulated mugs with the ship’s logo, they’d clean up and stop the no iced tea hostility, but they are not yet that sensible. The $350 dollar sweaters didn’t sell even at 50% off. When the temperature outside went to 90 degrees, people wanted tee shirts. They only had a few, they were expensive and for sale only in the liquor store! A simple $29 item in the jewelry shop would have sold out. But they didn’t have anything at all in that category. SHORE EXCURSIONS: The stops on our crossing were: Barcelona, Casablanca, Funchal, Barbados, Antigua, Tortola, St. Maarten, and Nassau. Generally well run. Remember to bring Euros for Barcelona and Funchal (not all the Americans on board did). The ship charges 3 percent to change money. This includes 3 percent to cash travelers checks which is a bum deal. They’re supposed to be cash. The full day excursion to Marrakesh from Casablanca which includes a 4 hour bus trip both ways is exhausting but sooo worth it! Don’t miss this one. In Madeira, we found riding a wicker … read more »

Response:

ervice remained unreliable. > Our two valiant American hostesses, Amanda and Vanessa, bravely took a > barrage of passenger criticism, justified and otherwise, and relayed > the complaints to management. Often the response from the bridge was > an automatic "no," but then the problem would be mysteriously solved > 24 hours later.

I will be sure to relay that message to Vanessa and her roomate Amanda Not that I am a proud father or anything! > HOPE FOR THE FUTURE: > MSC has hired management from American cruise lines to explain > American cruise culture to them, so improvement should be swift. They > are really trying hard. But we don’t expect they’ll ever be "plain > vanilla." If you like, by all means give them a try, but only if you > understand going in it’s going to be different, and that’s not a bad > thing.

Thank you for what sounds like a balanced and honest review, It meshes with what I saw on board and what my daugther (the aforementioned Vanessa) said about her experience on the crossing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Am I correct in understanding that "Opera" does have lounge chairs on promenade deck?  That is my favorite place to sit on any cruise and a ship without a beautiful promenade with comfortable seating is no high on my list.   I would love to try the "Opera" and wish MSC the very best of luck. Rick

Response:

> ABOUT US: We are 55 and 60 years old, and have traveled extensively. > We took the Westbound Transatlantic crossing of the Opera in Nov., > 2004, starting in Genoa, Italy and ending in Ft. Lauderdale. This was > our 7th cruise together.

 > Absolutely great and well rounded review!  Thank you.  I’ll be sailing on MSC OPERA next month and I’m really counting on something different than the mainstream American cruise lines.  It sounds like MSC might just be the ticket.  All the things that annoyed the demanding Florida passengers I will take in stride.  I don’t let the small things get to me, and it sounds like you don’t as well.  I think the most successful travelers are those that can roll with the punches and enjoy experiences that are different rather than the same.  Isn’t that the point of traveling anyway?  Too bad many American cruisers have gotten used to getting their way and having their hand held. It makes for some very unfriendly people  …. and we have all come across them on cruises. One thing …. MSC Cruises does not plan to be a budget line in the US. Their prices are on the budget level now to attract customers since they are relatively unknown.  They plan to offer a premium product with an Italian flair that will be a notch above Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and NCL.  I imagine we will see their prices rise as they infiltrate the market and offer an alternative to Holland America and Celebrity. Thanks again for the review! Ernie

Response:

> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up.

Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC anytime soon. — Charles

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up. > Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC > anytime soon. > —

Maybe Rick Sasso will get the message. –Tom

Response:

Thanks for posting your cruise review, I enjoyed reading it. You are a good writer, every entertaining. Many people may want to try this ship, but I am afraid the smoking problem will keep a lot of people away.  OTOH, it may attract a few smokers. Becca  <—–avoids smoke when I can… MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/ Miracle in May http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm Canada – New England http://www.cruisemaster.com/carnivalFall.htm Caribbean Princess http://www.cruisemaster.com/caribprin.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they >> aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning >> smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the >> restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non >> smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the >> cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night >> (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were >> fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking >> area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed >> corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light >> up. > Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC > anytime soon. > — > Maybe Rick Sasso will get the message. > –Tom

The cruises originating from the US will have a much higher percentage of Americans and Canadians which automatically means less smokers.  I would imagine there will be no more smokers than on a typical Carnival cruise. I also hope Rick Sasso doesn’t "Americanize" the product to the point where it’s just another Princess or Royal Caribbean.  I think that would defeat the entire marketing strategy. MSC is definitely for people looking for something beyond the mainstream. Ernie

Response:

> The cruises originating from the US will have a much higher percentage of > Americans and Canadians which automatically means less smokers.  I would > imagine there will be no more smokers than on a typical Carnival cruise.

Maybe. A counter example would be Costa. It has somewhat similiar origins and from the reviews I have read of their Caribbean sailings there are more smokers than other cruise lines. Also If the Carnival cruise I was on in October is typical then a typical Carnival cruise has more second hand smoke. — Charles

Response:

> Maybe. A counter example would be Costa. It has somewhat similiar > origins and from the reviews I have read of their Caribbean sailings > there are more smokers than other cruise lines. Also If the Carnival > cruise I was on in October is typical then a typical Carnival cruise > has more second hand smoke. > — > Charles

My Carnival cruises have typically had more smokers than other cruise lines I have sailed, which is why I used them as an example.  MSC sailing from the US will probably have smoker’s in the same quantity as Carnival.  For me personally, this is nothing that would stop me from sailing Carnival or MSC. I’m traveling with my mom and some friends on MSC OPERA, and my mom is a smoker so I know she will be happy. Ernie

Response:

> My Carnival cruises have typically had more smokers than other cruise lines > I have sailed, which is why I used them as an example.  MSC sailing from the > US will probably have smoker’s in the same quantity as Carnival.  For me > personally, this is nothing that would stop me from sailing Carnival or MSC. > I’m traveling with my mom and some friends on MSC OPERA, and my mom is a > smoker so I know she will be happy.

Okay. I was not sure if Carnival typically has more smokers or there was just more smoke on the one Carnival sailing. I can live with some second hand smoke, like what I have encountered on Celebrity, Princess and RCI. The amount I encountered on Carnival was over my personal threshold, so if it turns out MSC has the same quantity as Carnival I won’t book it. — Charles

Response:

The review was quite good. My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. Smoking was not a problem in most areas. The outside patio area had most of the smokers. There is no smoking in the 2 main show lounges, the dining rooms or on the port side of the ship. Ship:  Very nice. Service: At the start of the cruise, Poor. At the end of the cruise, GOOD As the other reviewer noted, they have a few things to work out. THEY WERE TRYING. This was the 1st caribbean cruise from Fort Lauderdale. I had expected some problems with service. This is normal. I was on the 1st cruise of the Mariner of the Seas. It was not as good as the Operas 1st cruise. The food in the dining rooms was Very Good. The Buffet was Fair to Poor  It also was not opened every night. Has to be improved! The Casino:  2 Blackjack tables, 1 Caribbean Stud Table & 1 Holdem Table. 3 Roulette wheels. and Slot machines.  VERY SMALL, No Dice table. It also was only open from 2:30 to 6:30 and 8:30 till 1AM. Shows were excellent. Some of the best I ever saw. Cabins are very nice, Shower is small. On a scale of 1 to 10, it is a 7.  I would go back anytime. Brent

Response:

Terrific review, thanks. Sue

Response:

>The review was quite good. >My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. >Smoking was not a problem in most areas. >The outside patio area had most of the smokers. >There is no smoking in the 2 main show lounges, the dining rooms or on the >port side of the ship.

Someone else remarked that smokers did not adhere to that stated policy. What did you observe?  Did the outside smokers stay on the smoking side or do I have to be prepared to punch out their lights if I sail on the Opera?

Response:

> The review was quite good. > My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. > Smoking was not a problem in most areas. > The outside patio area had most of the smokers.

By your description, smoking is only a problem if you want to go outside. How about a show of hands? How many people like to go out on th e deck during a cruise?

Response:

>> The review was quite good. > My review is on the 7 night cruise Dec. 4, 2004. > Smoking was not a problem in most areas. > The outside patio area had most of the smokers. >By your description, smoking is only a problem if you want to go >outside. How about a show of hands? How many people like to go out on th >e deck during a cruise?

me, me, me, me, and we, we, we, we.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up. >Thanks for the review. The above scratches the idea that I will try MSC >anytime soon.

Same for us.  No MSC cruises as long as they don’t maintain lots of smokefree areas, including out on deck.   It’s a shame, because we are enjoy opportunities to mix and mingle with folks of other nations.  And foreign languages are no obstacle, either.  Between us we have several languages in which we are fluent and we are well-travelled. It’s not fair or truthful to say that Europeans "smoke like chimneys". Certain segments of some European countries include more smokers, and speaking from experience, that would likely include budget cruisers.   I lived and studied among well-educated upper middle-class Germans, Austrians, Dutch and Belgians and not even one of them smoked.  Neither did most of the other Europeans I knew well.   We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere else in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much smoking. Do we cruise less often because of this?  Yep, you betcha.

Response:

> We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere else > in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much smoking.

I think there are somewhat more smokers on cruises than the percentage who smoke in the general population and it probably is because cruise ships are one of the last refuges of smokers. — Charles

Response:

> We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere > else > in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much > smoking. > I think there are somewhat more smokers on cruises than the percentage > who smoke in the general population and it probably is because cruise > ships are one of the last refuges of smokers. > —

Also, it could be more of a "pattern of behavior" type place.  Many people who don’t smoke regularly, or at least not frequently during the day, may find themselves in night clubs, discos, casinos, etc., each evening, where smoking is more frequently found.  They get caught in the cycle and end up smoking both day and night during the cruise. –Tom

Response:

>>> 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they >> aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning >> smoking. >It’s not fair or truthful to say that Europeans "smoke like chimneys". >Certain segments of some European countries include more smokers, and speaking >from experience, that would likely include budget cruisers.   I lived and >studied among well-educated upper middle-class Germans, Austrians, Dutch and >Belgians and not even one of them smoked.  Neither did most of the other >Europeans I knew well.  

It is entirely fair and truthful to say that Europeans "smoke like chimneys," as people active in international campaigns to reduce smoking in public places can tell you. People who sailed on the Opera repositioning cruise can offer anecdotal support to the medical statistics, and we did. This doesn’t make us untruthful, it means that our experience was not what one writer expected. Our chimney-like characterization applies to offices, restaurants and public places in general. If one is fortunate enough to have spent time among a handful of European non-smokers, congratulations, so have we. Nonetheless, from a public policy point of view, the trends are clear – many European countries are way behind us in recognizing the harm in second-hand smoke, and doing anything about it. On our repositioning cruise, there were some areas of the Opera, like the restaurants, where smoking was not allowed and the prohibition was observed. There were other areas of the ship where the non-smoking signs were disregarded. If, as seems from Brent Stell’s excellent review, this is less of a problem with the winter-season Caribbean-only cruises, that’s good news. My wife is asthmatic and can’t tolerate tobacco smoke. We always found ways of working around it on our crossing, and it should be even easier now. We didn’t have room in our review to mention that you can request a non-smoker’s cabin, so you don’t have to deal with fumes from a previous passenger. If you are a militant non-smoker, as we are, don’t eliminate the Opera from consideration for that one reason. The entire ship is cleaner than most, and tobacco was a manageable problem. As a work-in-progress, I’m sure that over time the ship will become progressively more considerate to non-smokers. Dave

Response:

>We didn’t have room in our review to mention that you can request a >non-smoker’s cabin, so you don’t have to deal with fumes from a >previous passenger.

You had room to classify and entire continent of people when you said that Europeans "smoke like chimneys," yet you could not fit into your review the very important and welcome news that there is a ship that has non-smoking cabins on it?  Check the size of your sentences.  You DID have room.   OK, it was your review, your choice, but that tidbit of information is one I would not have left out.  I am glad to now learn that the MSC Opera has some cabins that don’t reek of smoke.  Hopefully, there are many, spread across a wide assortment of cabin types and locations, including the most coveted. I enjoyed your review, in general.  Like you, we do not tolerate smoke well, and we patronize places where we can avoid it.  If MSC can provide a unique cruise experience and polices their own stated "no smoking" areas, we’ll be happy to give the line a chance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> We notice significantly more adult smokers on cruises than we do anywhere >> else >> in our daily lives, and maybe it is because ships still permit so much >> smoking. > I think there are somewhat more smokers on cruises than the percentage > who smoke in the general population and it probably is because cruise > ships are one of the last refuges of smokers. > — >Also, it could be more of a "pattern of behavior" type place.  Many people >who don’t smoke regularly, or at least not frequently during the day, may >find themselves in night clubs, discos, casinos, etc., each evening, where >smoking is more frequently found.  They get caught in the cycle and end >up  smoking both day and night during the cruise.

Kind of like werewolves get caught in the cycle of a full moon?

Response:

> Nonetheless, from a public policy point of view, the trends are clear > – many European countries are way behind us in recognizing the harm

They know about it. > in > second-hand smoke, and doing anything about it.

Is a different thing.

Response:

Certainly this is true to some extent….I know a lot of social smokers who never smoke but may have 1 or 2 in a disco, etc. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Also, it could be more of a "pattern of behavior" type place.  Many people > who don’t smoke regularly, or at least not frequently during the day, may > find themselves in night clubs, discos, casinos, etc., each evening, where > smoking is more frequently found.  They get caught in the cycle and end up > smoking both day and night during the cruise. > –Tom

Response:

Please email me about your review. Thanks, Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ABOUT US: We are 55 and 60 years old, and have traveled extensively. > We took the Westbound Transatlantic crossing of the Opera in Nov., > 2004, starting in Genoa, Italy and ending in Ft. Lauderdale. This was > our 7th cruise together. > ABOUT THE SHIP: If you have a specific idea of what cruising should be > like, with a thousand detailed requirements, you will not enjoy this > ship. It does not offer the same experience as Carnival, Royal > Caribbean or Norwegian and probably never will. If, on the other hand, > you find the interplay of cultures fascinating, and find differences > stimulating instead of just "wrong," you’ll have a wonderful time. > MSC is an Italian company. They are the second largest cargo line in > the world and are relatively new to the cruise market so there are > some good values to be had. > At least half of the passengers on our ocean crossing were Europeans > and the blessedly few PA announcements were in five languages: > English, German, Italian, French and Spanish. Service personnel must > function in most of these languages. Some do this better than others, > but all seemed pleasant and patient. > The MSC Opera is new and is a sleek greyhound. It was designed for the > luxury trade before the decision was made to pursue the budget end of > the market. The interiors are quietly elegant in dark blues, smoky > plums, corals and creams. There’s no art in particular but the > lighting fixtures are well designed like big sculptures. The ship > lacks glass-sided elevators, high atriums and Vegas-style metallic > glitz, but makes up for it by being really comfortable, human-scaled > like a good European hotel. Lots of small places to settle in. Lots of > glass and views of the sea. > We had an inside cabin. It was not the largest we’ve been in, but the > mirror layout was the best we’ve seen, giving more light and sense of > space than we expected. The bathroom was equally well-planned, > generously sized with an excellent shower. Water heat and pressure > were both good. > The smaller of the two restaurants, L’approdo, is a jewel box of red > and pink. The larger restaurant, La Caravella, is very sophisticated > in green, cream and yellow, with lots of columns and divisions so it > seems more intimate than its size would indicate. > There is a cafeteria on the top deck with indoor and outdoor > seating. The top deck also has two pools and is very lively. There > is often an excitable host screaming in 4 or 5 languages, running > incomprehensible games and contests with enthusiastic passengers, > Europop blaring on the speakers. If you want quiet, there are lounge > chairs on the Boat Deck most days and also at the stern of many of the > cabin decks. > ABOUT THE FOOD: Extraordinarily good. Northern Italian. We were on for > 17 days and they didn’t miss on a pasta or risotto once. Good pizza, > superb homemade ice cream, excellent bread, good soup. We found the > meat entrees a little lacking but others singled them out as > exceptional. You could always get a grilled sirloin or chicken if you > didn’t like the chef’s entrees. > The cakes were of the baba au rhum variety. Very airy and not > much chocolate, but plenty of variety. Lots of salads and fresh fruit, > plus fresh fruit in the rooms. > The waiters are Italian and joke a little heavily at first and > not always successfully in an attempt to charm you. On the whole they > are very good. When I expressed a preference for ice tea > and breadsticks rather than rolls, I found them waiting every > night. Luigi was an excellent waiter, Mario and Carlo excellent > maitre’d’s (and Sylvie was a superb cabin steward too.) > MSC has a policy that you don’t have to tip if you don’t want to. > This is churlish, the staff deserves it, they work hard. We followed > the policy we have always followed. We ignored management’s > guidelines and tipped what we wanted to and felt was appropriate. > THE BEST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: The intimacy and sheer livability of > the ship are the main virtues for us, but one of the most civilized > things is that they allow you to get duty free liquor and open it and > consume it in your room. They don’t seal it for the voyage so you’ll > order more from the bars like many lines do. > THE WORST THING ABOUT THE SHIP: There are two really bad things about > the ship: > 1) SMOKING: Many Europeans smoke. Like chimneys. And seemingly they > aren’t even aware it might hurt others. They are behind us on banning > smoking. Fortunately they were not allowed to smoke inside the > restaurants, but the outdoor patio area was rendered unusable for non > smokers. This was a big disappointment to us, but didn’t ruin the > cruise. We don’t go to the lounges at night > (we like to get up for the dawn) but we understand there were > fights in the lounges about people who ignored the non-smoking > area designations. And there’s nothing like being in a jammed > corridor trying to exit the ship in a port and having someone light > up. > Some Americans complained to the offenders but many of the smokers > didn’t speak English, so it was futile. We never saw staff do anything > to enforce the no-smoking areas. I am asthmatic and suffer from smoke, > but I was able to get away from it OK. Judge for yourself whether it > makes a difference to you. > 2) MANAGEMENT: Charming but utterly chaotic. Generally inefficient and > sometimes maddeningly so and in odd ways. The loading of the ship in > Genoa, for example, was the most efficient I have ever seen. You > checked in, reserved your dining table, and booked your shore > excursions in one very smooth line. But once on board, both the > purser’s and excursion desks were uninformed and uncoordinated. > For example, we tried to book a transfer from the dock to Ft. > Lauderdale airport. Reception said Shore Excursions handled that, > Shore Excursions said Reception handled that, they bounced us back and > forth, called each other and yelled into the phone. We eventually did > get to the airport and make our flight, but a little more coordination > would have worked wonders with the experience. > Similarly the 24 hour internet service broke down periodically because > the satellite gave them problems. Nobody had any idea when it would be > fixed. There is a technician on board but service remained unreliable. > Our two valiant American hostesses, Amanda and Vanessa, bravely took a > barrage of passenger criticism, justified and otherwise, and relayed > the complaints to management. Often the response from the bridge was > an automatic "no," but then the problem would be mysteriously solved > 24 hours later. > THE PEOPLE ON BOARD: The Americans on board this repositioning cruise > were largely retired people, many from Florida. They are very > experienced budget cruisers. They have taken every line and they have > very set expectations about what they like and want from a cruise. > When they don’t get what they are used to from Carnival, Royal > Caribbean, etc., they don’t perceive this European ship as different, > they perceive it as WRONG! This makes some of them very hostile.   > For example, there are only small cups of ice water on a hot day. > Not spigots of iced tea or fruit juice like on other ships. There is > iced tea but only in the dining rooms. Not in the cafeteria or on the > outdoor patio. This one thing made a lot of people hostile. (Until > management gets around to this one, bring a tall insulated mug and > make your own). > We were told there is little music for ballroom dancing at night. Only > disco (I guess their Mediterranean cruises have more young people > -Europeans have longer vacations than us and the American passengers > skewed older). > There are movies on the TV but they are dubbed in many languages. And > the English-language originals are often not on at convenient times, > nor are the schedules reliable. "Welcome to Mooseport" loses something > when dubbed in German (I’m not kidding). > And some passengers just don’t like it when they are so many people > on board that they can’t talk to, and they grow impatient when > instructions have to be translated. Also, some cultures are trained to > get on line, while others just crowd in, which makes for conflict. If > management would put rope lines like a bank in front of the reception > counter, that might defuse a lot of bad feeling. > We read some hostile reviews of this ship and its sister ship, > the Lirica before we booked this, but we must say we enjoyed the > experience thoroughly and found it a phenomenal value. You just have > to know what you are getting in to. > SHOPS: Very tasteful and very expensive, which made no sense at all. > The shops were one part of the ship not recalibrated for budget > cruising. The stock was entirely for the European market, the wrong > weight clothing and not even in American sizes. They didn’t sell > bottles of aspirin or Tylenol, but did sell several kinds of expensive > anti-cellulite cream. Considering the average age and needs of the > Caribbean cruisers this is pretty odd. Also, one lone bottle of SPF > sunblock shared shelf space with plentiful supplies of old-fashioned > tanning butter. > If they sold some insulated mugs with the ship’s logo, they’d clean up > and stop the no iced tea hostility, but they are not yet that > sensible. The $350 dollar sweaters didn’t sell even at 50% off. When > the temperature outside went to 90 degrees, people wanted tee shirts. > They only had a few, they were expensive and for sale only in the > liquor store! A simple $29 item in the jewelry shop would have sold > out. But they didn’t have anything at all in that category. > SHORE EXCURSIONS: The stops on our crossing were: Barcelona, > Casablanca, Funchal, Barbados, Antigua, Tortola, St. Maarten, and > Nassau. Generally

… read more »

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > (Joe Prinz) arranged > some electrons, so they looked like this : >  … Check this out! >  … >  … Columbia Windpass Wheeled Backpack >  … >  http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ… >  =8051849&memberId=12500226 >  … >  … Its an amazing deal. $70.00 for a wheeled backack..  I have looked >  … alot, and to find one like this with a BELT is hard pressed for >  … under$200.00. > They weigh an amazing 11 lb as well. NO WAY.

LOL!  I never even tried on the one I saw. I traveled for three weeks at a time with my old backpack heavily loaded at less than twice that even with some books included! — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) There is no such thing as too many books. Bookshelves, on the other hand . . . Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

I have both a well-made Eagle Creek carry-on size travel backpack (no wheels) and a standard Samsonite wheeled carry-on size suitcase. In 13 trips over the past six  years to Europe, and lots of business travel in the USA, I’ve used the wheeled bag almost exclusively (actually, it’s all I usually take, even for two+ week trips). I’m reasonably young and fit, am an experienced backpacker, and still like my wheeled bag! Yes, I’ve rolled it long distances over rough roads, even cobblestones (a recent 20-minute walk from the RER in Paris to my hotel in the Latin Quarter, for example), with no problems. If you are train-touring in Europe, and tend to wander all day with your luggage, then undoubtedly the backpack is the way to go. If you stash your bag in a locker or your hostel/hotel during the day, then I think the wheeled bag is easier all-round. I do agree that a wheeled backpack is kind of redundant, and adds unneccesary wieght and complexity. Note that many, if not most, European and non-US airlines are very strict with wieght and size restrictions for carryons. Several times I’ve been denied the ability to carry-on my bag on a connecting flight (connecting from United or US Air to Lufthansa, for example). Just because you are allowed it on your trans-Atlantic leg does not mean you will be allowed it on your intra-Europe leg. Pack accordingly, and make sure your carry-on does not look overly heavy or bulging. Brian W. Philadelphia, Pa./USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I looked at them briefly. All they do is add weight except for chasing > around in airports. Traveling by train, as I usually do in Europe, and > often walking over ground where wheels would be useless(have you ever > dragged something with little wheels over cobblestones? "leashes" > break). I didn’t even consider one when I went backpack-shopping after > my last trip. I am a not outstandingly fit but healthy 69-year-old woman > who believes in traveling light.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Check this out! > Columbia Windpass Wheeled Backpack > http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ… > Its an amazing deal. $70.00 for a wheeled backack..  I have looked > alot, and to find one like this with a BELT is hard pressed for > under$200.00. > My GF and I ordered one for each of us for a trip to Italy.  We just > got them yesterday.. here is my review WITHOUT using them: > 1. They seem to have really good quality… stitching etc..   > 2. The are carryonable without the external day pack..   > 3. The external day pack sips completely to main pack and becomes as > one with it. > 4. Its heavy.. I weighed it with the day pack at 10 lbs and the day > pack is barely one lb if that. > 5. The day pack is quite large and has a nice expansion zipper. > 6. The day pack does not have a belt, but one would be easy to add.   > 7. Did I mention its heavy? > 8. Wheels are roller blade type.. on bearigns I believe.. > 9. Built almost too well.. did I mention heavy? > 10. The handle extends to a nice length.. if you are tall I think you > coudl pull it nicely. > 11. Cheap. > 12. you can’t get much bigger and still carryon..  its only .5" > smaller than most airlines maximum. > 13. The top is not as curved as most… but the picture shows it more > square than it really is.. I was a bit let down with that part… > I think the following.. if you are in great health, have no back > problems, and you are very fit.. get a backpack.  If you have a weak > back, or any ailments,.. and frankly, if you are not a REALLY fit > woman.. I suggest a wheeled backpack WITH a belt.. WITH a belt.. the > weight should be mostly on your HIPS!!!!! > Reason: you can switch between wheeled and backpack and you will feel > much better.. its long extended strains on certain parts of the body > that make me feel uncomfortable? How about you?  I think this is true > for many.

I have a number of different types of backpacks, depending upon my needs. I do own one small daypack size that has wheels. I thought it’d be convenient for airplane travel as well as small/local travel. It *is* useful for airline travel for two reasons :1), I can wheel it in the airport if I put something heavy into it and 2)it’s not hard on all sides so if there’s not much in it I can squish it a bit to fit in a small space. It does fit under seats in some planes. However, I don’t find it useful for actual travelling when I need to carry it on my back. The wheels cut into my back/hips and it’s rather uncomfortable and awkward to carry. I *have* done so, and it’s useful to have that option, but vastly prefer my backpack. Outside of the plane flights, I am generally not in a place where I want to pull the bag on wheels. Even on nicely paved city sidewalks, pulling a bag is not practical. If I’m travelling (as opposed from just flying from point A to point B and staying put), and walking a lot, I vastly prefer a typical backpack. I agree with having the hip belt, and it’s important to find a backpack that fits well. I do use my little one a fair amount. Bought it at Kmart about 6 years ago for $15. It’s in amazingly good condition still. For a backpack for travel, I use a convertible Eagle Creek bag (it was the 2nd biggest at the time, can’t recall size), bought from Campmor on sale for $90 a few years ago.  For _backpacking_, I use another internal frame top loading backpack..can’t recall the brand or how much I paid. It’s a great pack though. I wouldn’t suggest a wheeled backpack unless you’re not intending to carry it much at all, and not if you’ll be doing a lot of train/bus travel or walking outdoors.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Prinz) arranged > some electrons, so they looked like this : >  … Check this out! >  … >  … Columbia Windpass Wheeled Backpack >  … > http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ… > 849&memberId=12500226 >  … >  … Its an amazing deal. $70.00 for a wheeled backack..  I have looked >  … alot, and to find one like this with a BELT is hard pressed for >  … under$200.00. > They weigh an amazing 11 lb as well. NO WAY.

OP: This amazing light bargain on wheels will probably fall apart and die right in the aisle of the plane when we are all behind you trying to get to our seats. Been there before.   billfrogg

Response:

The 19.5" Concourse weighs only 4#; the 17" weighs 3#… Tim K

(Joe Prinz) arranged > some electrons, so they looked like this : >  … Check this out! >  … >  … Columbia Windpass Wheeled Backpack >  …

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  … >  … Its an amazing deal. $70.00 for a wheeled backack..  I have looked >  … alot, and to find one like this with a BELT is hard pressed for >  … under$200.00. > They weigh an amazing 11 lb as well. NO WAY.

Response:

> Just purchased a ‘Concourse’ wheeled backpack last week for $24 on sale > at Super-K; 19.5"; many pockets and compartments, good sturdy > telescoping handle and carry handle; and good but not excellent wheels, > no waste band support though…  I read another post where someone > mentioned similar gear that they *wheeled* 95% of the time in normal > use; the straps themselves seem OK for 5% usage without the belt; or so > I will hope…<g>  I also purchased for less than a Fiver a very strong > fine mesh ‘laundry bag’ that the entire pack will fit into; as also > suggested here once bagged into luggage check nothing to catch on the > machinery; a fine tote sack for the road also. > Best part of the deal… a *second* 17" nearly identical rolling > backpack as part of the Two-Piece deal price!

Once a Finnish chap was carrying his outdoor gear in a wheelbarrow on his way northbound along the highway four to the Norwegian border. He said that heavy loads can be pushed forward easily. Naturally by this method one cannot expect much off road travelling. Perhaps in hill countries the benefits are less obvious.

Response:

…could that have been your mountain cousin, ‘Jethro’ Sounds like it could have been Red Green or Mr. Bean too!  At least we’re pretty sure it wasn’t another ‘tourist’ sighting…<G> Tim K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Once a Finnish chap was carrying his outdoor gear in a wheelbarrow on his > way northbound along the highway four to the Norwegian border. He said that > heavy loads can be pushed forward easily. Naturally by this method one > cannot expect much off road travelling. Perhaps in hill countries the > benefits are less obvious.

Response:

> I think the following.. if you are in great health, have no back > problems, and you are very fit.. get a backpack.  If you have a weak > back, or any ailments,.. and frankly, if you are not a REALLY fit > woman.. I suggest a wheeled backpack WITH a belt.. WITH a belt.. the > weight should be mostly on your HIPS!!!!!

I looked at them briefly. All they do is add weight except for chasing around in airports. Traveling by train, as I usually do in Europe, and often walking over ground where wheels would be useless(have you ever dragged something with little wheels over cobblestones? "leashes" break). I didn’t even consider one when I went backpack-shopping after my last trip. I am a not outstandingly fit but healthy 69-year-old woman who believes in traveling light. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) There is no such thing as too many books. Bookshelves, on the other hand . . . Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

Check this out! Columbia Windpass Wheeled Backpack http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ… Its an amazing deal. $70.00 for a wheeled backack..  I have looked alot, and to find one like this with a BELT is hard pressed for under$200.00. My GF and I ordered one for each of us for a trip to Italy.  We just got them yesterday.. here is my review WITHOUT using them: 1. They seem to have really good quality… stitching etc..   2. The are carryonable without the external day pack..   3. The external day pack sips completely to main pack and becomes as one with it. 4. Its heavy.. I weighed it with the day pack at 10 lbs and the day pack is barely one lb if that. 5. The day pack is quite large and has a nice expansion zipper. 6. The day pack does not have a belt, but one would be easy to add.   7. Did I mention its heavy? 8. Wheels are roller blade type.. on bearigns I believe.. 9. Built almost too well.. did I mention heavy? 10. The handle extends to a nice length.. if you are tall I think you coudl pull it nicely. 11. Cheap. 12. you can’t get much bigger and still carryon..  its only .5" smaller than most airlines maximum. 13. The top is not as curved as most… but the picture shows it more square than it really is.. I was a bit let down with that part… I think the following.. if you are in great health, have no back problems, and you are very fit.. get a backpack.  If you have a weak back, or any ailments,.. and frankly, if you are not a REALLY fit woman.. I suggest a wheeled backpack WITH a belt.. WITH a belt.. the weight should be mostly on your HIPS!!!!! Reason: you can switch between wheeled and backpack and you will feel much better.. its long extended strains on certain parts of the body that make me feel uncomfortable? How about you?  I think this is true for many. I look forward to many years of travel with this bag.. it looks like its built really well.. buy em before they are all gone.. they are usually over $130 on SALE.. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m interested in buying a wheeled backpack, one that meets carry-on > requirements (22"). > I’m especially interested in those that have a detachable daypack. > I’ve looked at several (especially at ebags.com, and also > baggageforless.com) and > am seriously interested in a High Sierra AT-205. > Does anybody have any experience with this type of bag? Pros? Cons? Are they > too heavy to realistically carry on your back when loaded? I already use a > backpack > from Rick Steves, but am looking wheeled convenience some times. > Any suggestions (for specific makes/models or websites) and opinions are > appreciated! > Thanks in advance!

Response:

Just purchased a ‘Concourse’ wheeled backpack last week for $24 on sale at Super-K; 19.5"; many pockets and compartments, good sturdy telescoping handle and carry handle; and good but not excellent wheels, no waste band support though…  I read another post where someone mentioned similar gear that they *wheeled* 95% of the time in normal use; the straps themselves seem OK for 5% usage without the belt; or so I will hope…<g>  I also purchased for less than a Fiver a very strong fine mesh ‘laundry bag’ that the entire pack will fit into; as also suggested here once bagged into luggage check nothing to catch on the machinery; a fine tote sack for the road also. Best part of the deal… a *second* 17" nearly identical rolling backpack as part of the Two-Piece deal price! Tim K

> Check this out! > Columbia Windpass Wheeled Backpack

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?produ… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Its an amazing deal. $70.00 for a wheeled backack..  I have looked > alot, and to find one like this with a BELT is hard pressed for > under$200.00. > My GF and I ordered one for each of us for a trip to Italy.  We just > got them yesterday.. here is my review WITHOUT using them: > 1. They seem to have really good quality… stitching etc.. > 2. The are carryonable without the external day pack.. > 3. The external day pack sips completely to main pack and becomes as > one with it. > 4. Its heavy.. I weighed it with the day pack at 10 lbs and the day > pack is barely one lb if that. > 5. The day pack is quite large and has a nice expansion zipper. > 6. The day pack does not have a belt, but one would be easy to add. > 7. Did I mention its heavy? > 8. Wheels are roller blade type.. on bearigns I believe.. > 9. Built almost too well.. did I mention heavy? > 10. The handle extends to a nice length.. if you are tall I think you > coudl pull it nicely. > 11. Cheap. > 12. you can’t get much bigger and still carryon..  its only .5" > smaller than most airlines maximum. > 13. The top is not as curved as most… but the picture shows it more > square than it really is.. I was a bit let down with that part… > I think the following.. if you are in great health, have no back > problems, and you are very fit.. get a backpack.  If you have a weak > back, or any ailments,.. and frankly, if you are not a REALLY fit > woman.. I suggest a wheeled backpack WITH a belt.. WITH a belt.. the > weight should be mostly on your HIPS!!!!! > Reason: you can switch between wheeled and backpack and you will feel > much better.. its long extended strains on certain parts of the body > that make me feel uncomfortable? How about you?  I think this is true > for many. > I look forward to many years of travel with this bag.. it looks like > its built really well.. buy em before they are all gone.. they are > usually over $130 on SALE.. > Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m interested in buying a wheeled backpack, one that meets carry-on > requirements (22"). > I’m especially interested in those that have a detachable daypack. > I’ve looked at several (especially at ebags.com, and also > baggageforless.com) and > am seriously interested in a High Sierra AT-205. > Does anybody have any experience with this type of bag? Pros? Cons? Are they > too heavy to realistically carry on your back when loaded? I already use a > backpack > from Rick Steves, but am looking wheeled convenience some times. > Any suggestions (for specific makes/models or websites) and opinions are > appreciated! > Thanks in advance!

Response:

Check out; http://www.worldtraveler.com They have a section with Backpacks.  I don’t use them, but I have a medium size case – Ricardo, Beverly Hills from them. Surprisingly inexpensive, and really rugged.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m interested in buying a wheeled backpack, one that meets carry-on > requirements (22"). > I’m especially interested in those that have a detachable daypack. > I’ve looked at several (especially at ebags.com, and also > baggageforless.com) and > am seriously interested in a High Sierra AT-205. > Does anybody have any experience with this type of bag? Pros? Cons? Are they > too heavy to realistically carry on your back when loaded? I already use a > backpack > from Rick Steves, but am looking wheeled convenience some times. > Any suggestions (for specific makes/models or websites) and opinions are > appreciated! > Thanks in advance!

I use the 22" 360 E-Motion by Victorinox.  They are kind of pricy but I got mine for as a last years model with a coupon for about $150 at: http://www.irvs.com/catreslt.php?CatNo=15 If you do some web searches you may be able to find a coupon. I like this bag.  It’s well made and access is well though out.  On my back it feels like my Gregory backback.  It’s curved so that it will fit in the some of the smaller overheads if you put in upside down and top first which really helps.  The only problem I’ve had is Austrian Air in Vienna would not allow me to carry it on because it 1 kilo over the weight limit (yes, they weighed it).  The only complaint I have is that the rounded top limits it’s capacity a little. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

This was discussed in detail about a year ago; I think the general conclusion is that if you are in the US you can’t go wrong with luggage from either of the three major players: Hartmann, Andiamo, or Tumi.  As far as I can tell a wheeled ‘backpack’ does neither job well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m interested in buying a wheeled backpack, one that meets carry-on > requirements (22").

Response:

I’m interested in buying a wheeled backpack, one that meets carry-on requirements (22"). I’m especially interested in those that have a detachable daypack. I’ve looked at several (especially at ebags.com, and also baggageforless.com) and am seriously interested in a High Sierra AT-205. Does anybody have any experience with this type of bag? Pros? Cons? Are they too heavy to realistically carry on your back when loaded? I already use a backpack from Rick Steves, but am looking wheeled convenience some times. Any suggestions (for specific makes/models or websites) and opinions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Response:

Question:

Hello, I have to take a couple of return tickets from HongKong (HKG) to Guangzhou (CAN). Where do you suggest me to buy them? Is there any HK-based travel agency that offers *best fares*, *prompt email replies*, and *international shipment*??? Many thanks. daniele

Response:

> Hello, > I have to take a couple of return tickets from HongKong (HKG) to Guangzhou > (CAN). > Where do you suggest me to buy them? > Is there any HK-based travel agency that offers *best fares*, *prompt email > replies*, and *international shipment*??? > Many thanks. > daniele

I don’t quite understand. You are flying to HK and then wants a rt from HK to Guangzhou?  Plenty of HK travel agents can buy that for you, when you get there.  There are other means of travel to Guangzhou (by plane, train, bus or hydrofoil). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello, >I have to take a couple of return tickets from HongKong (HKG) to Guangzhou >(CAN). >Where do you suggest me to buy them? >Is there any HK-based travel agency that offers *best fares*, *prompt > email >replies*, and *international shipment*??? >Many thanks. >daniele > I don’t quite understand. You are flying to HK and then wants a rt from HK > to Guangzhou?  Plenty of HK travel agents can buy that for you, when you get > there.  There are other means of travel to Guangzhou (by plane, train, bus > or hydrofoil).

In a pinch, he can even buy it on Travelocity.

Response:

> I don’t quite understand. You are flying to HK and then wants a rt from HK > to Guangzhou?  Plenty of HK travel agents can buy that for you, when you get > there.  There are other means of travel to Guangzhou (by plane, train, bus > or hydrofoil).

Here in Italy we bought (tickets are already issued) 2 RTs  Milan>HKG. Now we decided that we just want to transit into HKG, and to continue directly to CAN by air. Without leaving the airport (my travel companion holds an Ukrainian passport, so otherwise he’s required to apply for an HK Visa). The problem is that his passport has no more blank pages (the last one will be occupied by the PRC Visa), and issuing a new passport will take to long time… So, we (he) cannot use bus/train/hydrofoil… How  to find the best fares for these RTs? Thanks

Response:

http://www.aerohkg.com/ http://www.priceline.com.hk/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I have to take a couple of return tickets from HongKong (HKG) to Guangzhou > (CAN). > Where do you suggest me to buy them? > Is there any HK-based travel agency that offers *best fares*, *prompt email > replies*, and *international shipment*??? > Many thanks. > daniele

Response:

Question:

> Look at the train sechulde..  www.trainitalia.it  if i am correct..

It’s www.trenitalia.it Barbara

Response:

I want to know how my mother whom visits Italy, can travel from Brecsia (Bedizzole) to Venezia. To be there (early in the morning)and back (late in the night)in the seam day, by train or bus. I appreciate,

Response:

Look at the train sechulde..  www.trainitalia.it  if i am correct.. if that isn’t it look up train and italy and it should pop up..  there should be an english language setting on there as the british flag. plus a few other languages if needed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I want to know how my mother whom visits Italy, can travel from >Brecsia (Bedizzole) to Venezia. To be there (early in the morning)and >back (late in the night)in the seam day, by train or bus. >I appreciate,

Response:

> Look at the train sechulde..  www.trainitalia.it  if i am correct.. > if that isn’t it look up train and italy and it should pop up..  there > should be an english language setting on there as the british flag. > plus a few other languages if needed.

For interest and information there is a web site at: http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/misc/timetabl.html which has links to most of the European Railway sites (you do have to know/guess the three character country designations or their flags). Michael Forrest

Response:

I want to know how my mother whom visits Italy, can travel from Brecsia (Bedizzole) to Venezia. To be there (early in the morning)and back (late in the night)in the seam day, by train or bus. I appreciate,

Response:

Look at the train sechulde..  www.trainitalia.it  if i am correct.. if that isn’t it look up train and italy and it should pop up..  there should be an english language setting on there as the british flag. plus a few other languages if needed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I want to know how my mother whom visits Italy, can travel from >Brecsia (Bedizzole) to Venezia. To be there (early in the morning)and >back (late in the night)in the seam day, by train or bus. >I appreciate,

Response:

> Look at the train sechulde..  www.trainitalia.it  if i am correct.. > if that isn’t it look up train and italy and it should pop up..  there > should be an english language setting on there as the british flag. > plus a few other languages if needed.

For interest and information there is a web site at: http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/misc/timetabl.html which has links to most of the European Railway sites (you do have to know/guess the three character country designations or their flags). Michael Forrest

Response:

> Look at the train sechulde..  www.trainitalia.it  if i am correct..

It’s www.trenitalia.it Barbara

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello fellow travellers, > I’m plannung an 8-day trip to anywhere on Adriatica coast of Italy, > mostly to get some sun & sea, and probably meet some old friends. > Preferred transport is train. > Questions: >   1. Train. Which one? How long? How much? Is there a Web site with >      timetables/prices covering this route? >   2. Beaches. How good are they? Never been to Adriatics, but liked >      Liguria beaches very much. >      Should I rather cross to another coast after having met the friends? >   3. Hotels, or (preferably) beach chalets. Any ideas how much a 3* double >      room may cost in July? Any good links to specific beach resorts in this >      area?

Adriatic coast is particularly popular with Germans, and *any* travel agent’s window is festooned with offers of a cheap holiday there with transport (air, bus usually) and accommodation included. This is likely to be cheaper than doing it independently, as July is peak holiday season. Alec

Response:

> >   3. Hotels, or (preferably) beach chalets. Any ideas how much a 3* double >      room may cost in July? Any good links to specific beach resorts in > this  area?

Well as long as you’re going to do it, why not go whole hog and go to Rimini, the absolute beach megapolis bar none.  There are gazillions of hotels there, so you can wind up with a 3-star for a very reasonable rate. Have a look at www.venere.com for hotels.  There are ‘quieter’ resorts, like Pesaro, and the beaches off Ravenna, and further down the coast toward the south–but none is too quiet that time of year, and Rimini is loads of fun! If you want to see Venice, you could also consider Lido di Jesolo, which is east of Venice, connected first by a very regular bus and then by vaporetto.

Response:

I disagree: a short-haul European ‘package’ will rarely be cheaper than a well informed independent holiday. That’s due to numerous no-frills airlines. Italy & the Adriatics are their favourite destinations, and plenty of them fly from Germany. For this reason, it would be unwise in your situation to take a train, unless you have any specific reason. From Berlin, check Air Berlin (www.airberlin.com) and Germania Express (www.gexx.de). Or you can connect in Hannover or Cologne for HLX (www.hlx.de) or Germanwings (www.germanwings.com). Their good offers to Italy are well cheaper than train travel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Adriatic coast is particularly popular with Germans, and *any* travel > agent’s window is festooned with offers of a cheap holiday there with > transport (air, bus usually) and accommodation included. This is likely to > be cheaper than doing it independently, as July is peak holiday season. > Alec > Adriatic coast is particularly popular with Germans, and *any* travel > agent’s window is festooned with offers of a cheap holiday there with > transport (air, bus usually) and accommodation included. This is likely to > be cheaper than doing it independently, as July is peak holiday season. > Alec

Response:

Or, in fact, you can fly Berlin-Venice with DBA: www.flydba.com Robert

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello fellow travellers, > I’m plannung an 8-day trip to anywhere on Adriatica coast of Italy, > mostly to get some sun & sea, and probably meet some old friends. > Preferred transport is train. > Questions: >   1. Train. Which one? How long? How much? Is there a Web site with >      timetables/prices covering this route? >   2. Beaches. How good are they? Never been to Adriatics, but liked >      Liguria beaches very much. >      Should I rather cross to another coast after having met the friends? >   3. Hotels, or (preferably) beach chalets. Any ideas how much a 3* double >      room may cost in July? Any good links to specific beach resorts in this >      area? > Thanks alot > Andrew

The last two weeks of July and the first two weeks in August are the ultimate high season on the "Adriatic Riviera".  The largest resort, and the most lively, is Rimini.  The beaches are quite good but extremely crowded.  The area is very popular with Northern European middle class families.  This, to my mind, makes it all the more fun.  There is a water park, lots of cafes and bars and lots of night life.  Not to mention the old town of Rimini, which has been there for hundreds of years.  There are still some interesting relics to see.  Bus transportation around the area is easy to use and cheap.  If you want the same atmosphere but in a smaller size consider Cattolica or Gabbicce Mare.  Both served by train as is Rimini.  You could go through a Berlin travel agency. A train would go to Milan where you would change to the Adriatic coast train wich stops at all of the resorts.  Don’t know what you consider a "beach  chalet" but there are hundreds of hotels in all price ranges.  Price depends on category and location.   Beach front with a beach front room being the highest-but still low IMO. Most of them require you to take at least half-board i.e. breakfast and dinner during high season. But the rates are still very cheap.  If you’re looking for a "romantic"interlude then the Adriatic Coast is not the place.  But if you’re looking for lively fun it’s perfect. Gary Nichols

Response:

aryzhov schrieb: > I’m plannung an 8-day trip to anywhere on Adriatica coast of Italy, > mostly to get some sun & sea, and probably meet some old friends. > Preferred transport is train. > Questions: >   1. Train. Which one? How long? How much? Is there a Web site with >      timetables/prices covering this route?

Try http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de Berlin 14:30 to Rimini 6:50 with change in Munich three times per week seems okay. There is also Berlin 19:41 – Rimini 14:39 with changes in G

Question:

> I am trying to put together a plan to go to Palermo in the third > week in June.  I have never travel internationally.  I have some > flexibility about the dates that I fly.

How’s your italian? > I sort of have the impression that the tickets will cost more if I > wait > to closer to the trip to buy.  It that true?

Almost always that’s true > The online price checks I did seemed to indicate that there were > much better deals to Naples than to Palermo ($800 vs $1600, seems too > big > a difference).  It looks like there is a fast boat (4 hours) between > Naples > to Palermo.  But I am wondering how hard it will be to make arranging > to get the boat ticket and get to the dock given that I only speak > English.  It would be a adventure, but I don’t want to get in over my > head.  (I am a middle-aged male.)

Palermo is not that popular, so less comptetion and higher prices. My experiences in the Milano area is that people employed at airports, bus terminals and places like that often speak some english and understand a bit as well. Taxidrivers over 40 almost never speak any foreign language but with a bit of writing down and some signing you get your message across. Third week of june still gives you time to study a phrase book. > I could perhaps get a plane from Naples to Palermo, or take the slower > ferry. > Any advice would be helpful.  I could also fly to Rome and take a > train > to Naples.  I think going to the southern tip of Italy might be to > long a trip, > but I could use that as a way to get some sleep on the journey, I > guess. I > don’t want to take much longer than a week to make the trip.

Don’t! Transfer from Rome airport to Train station is likely to eat up a lot of time. Before you’re in Palermo it will be almost a day. Just checked the alitalia website, if you book about now you can get a return ticket napoli-palermo for 125 euro — Met vriendelijke groeten/Best regards Jeroen Wijnands http://spam.pagina.nl

Response:

I am trying to put together a plan to go to Palermo in the third week in June.  I have never travel internationally.  I have some flexibility about the dates that I fly. I sort of have the impression that the tickets will cost more if I wait to closer to the trip to buy.  It that true? The online price checks I did seemed to indicate that there were much better deals to Naples than to Palermo ($800 vs $1600, seems too big a difference).  It looks like there is a fast boat (4 hours) between Naples to Palermo.  But I am wondering how hard it will be to make arranging to get the boat ticket and get to the dock given that I only speak English.  It would be a adventure, but I don’t want to get in over my head.  (I am a middle-aged male.) I could perhaps get a plane from Naples to Palermo, or take the slower ferry. Any advice would be helpful.  I could also fly to Rome and take a train to Naples.  I think going to the southern tip of Italy might be to long a trip, but I could use that as a way to get some sleep on the journey, I guess. I don’t want to take much longer than a week to make the trip.

Response:

I am trying to put together a plan to go to Palermo in the third week in June.  I have never travel internationally.  I have some flexibility about the dates that I fly. I sort of have the impression that the tickets will cost more if I wait to closer to the trip to buy.  It that true? The online price checks I did seemed to indicate that there were much better deals to Naples than to Palermo ($800 vs $1600, seems too big a difference).  It looks like there is a fast boat (4 hours) between Naples to Palermo.  But I am wondering how hard it will be to make arranging to get the boat ticket and get to the dock given that I only speak English.  It would be a adventure, but I don’t want to get in over my head.  (I am a middle-aged male.) I could perhaps get a plane from Naples to Palermo, or take the slower ferry. Any advice would be helpful.  I could also fly to Rome and take a train to Naples.  I think going to the southern tip of Italy might be to long a trip, but I could use that as a way to get some sleep on the journey, I guess. I don’t want to take much longer than a week to make the trip.

Response:

> I am trying to put together a plan to go to Palermo in the third > week in June.  I have never travel internationally.  I have some > flexibility about the dates that I fly.

How’s your italian? > I sort of have the impression that the tickets will cost more if I > wait > to closer to the trip to buy.  It that true?

Almost always that’s true > The online price checks I did seemed to indicate that there were > much better deals to Naples than to Palermo ($800 vs $1600, seems too > big > a difference).  It looks like there is a fast boat (4 hours) between > Naples > to Palermo.  But I am wondering how hard it will be to make arranging > to get the boat ticket and get to the dock given that I only speak > English.  It would be a adventure, but I don’t want to get in over my > head.  (I am a middle-aged male.)

Palermo is not that popular, so less comptetion and higher prices. My experiences in the Milano area is that people employed at airports, bus terminals and places like that often speak some english and understand a bit as well. Taxidrivers over 40 almost never speak any foreign language but with a bit of writing down and some signing you get your message across. Third week of june still gives you time to study a phrase book. > I could perhaps get a plane from Naples to Palermo, or take the slower > ferry. > Any advice would be helpful.  I could also fly to Rome and take a > train > to Naples.  I think going to the southern tip of Italy might be to > long a trip, > but I could use that as a way to get some sleep on the journey, I > guess. I > don’t want to take much longer than a week to make the trip.

Don’t! Transfer from Rome airport to Train station is likely to eat up a lot of time. Before you’re in Palermo it will be almost a day. Just checked the alitalia website, if you book about now you can get a return ticket napoli-palermo for 125 euro — Met vriendelijke groeten/Best regards Jeroen Wijnands http://spam.pagina.nl

Response:

Question:

>>The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about >ten minutes early. >yep…no problems > i had  a 2 hours delay but it was caused by the fog in charleroi

You mean "Brussels", don’t you? PB

Response:

>The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about >ten minutes early.

yep…no problems  i had  a 2 hours delay but it was caused by the fog in charleroi

Response:

>Bring sandwiches.

they  sell them on board for 4  pounds not cheap…but i recomend the hot bacon

Response:

> I’m particularly concerned about their reliability — do > they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times?

You can argue about statistics and personal experiences until you’re blue in the face, but over the last two or three years the worst delays I’ve had have been on short-haul scheduled flights leaving Heathrow all thanks to air traffic control. My own personal experience is Stansted is much better, I’ve made several times more departures from there with the likes of Ryanair with much better punctuality…. — Phil Richards London, N4

Response:

Flying with Delta, and US Air and an extinct airline Eastern  they were all mostly on time. A few were early, a few we late.   Heck back in 94, we sat on the runway for 45 minutes waiting for a thunderstorm to pass in Charlotte. Flying back into Atlanta we were late because an AeroMexico plane skipped its position in line and got on our runway and had to abort landing.. So even the big major carriers are late or early.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg > was not delayed by more than an hour), >Done 17 trips with Ryanair. Of these, 7 arrived 15-25 min early, 7 – >punctually (within 10 minutes), and 3 – late, but within one hour. >and when they arrived at Stansted > there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had > to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t > even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate. >Happens, but certainly not ‘over an hour’; 15-20 min maximum. >Robert

Response:

deja.com> said… > 9 The best fares are when THEY want you to fly. The costs when YOU want to > fly may be more.

Which comes down to supply and demand, when the flights are not heavily booked the fares are kept down, sometimes artificially down to the point when they literally give the seat away for next to nothing. Opt to travel at a time when everyone else wants/has to travel means your fare might be much higher. > The headline fare does not include taxes.

As often the tax is more than the fare! And scheduled airlines get away with that old trick too! > The real fare is what appears on the very last screen on which you agree > to having your credit card charged, including four pounds or so for the > privilege of using a credit card for the booking.

Think you need to go back and check this! Stage one is the basic fare per person, per leg. IMO that enables you to select the flight(s) you want as it is the only variable cost since the taxes are fixed "add on" (*) Stage two is the total fares for the flights plus taxes. Once you get to the screen you enter your payment details you’ll see: Card Type – a handling fee applies for Credit/Debit Cards, click for details. The higher fee (GBP 4/EUR 6) for Credit Cards has been in place for a long while, that’s to cover the charges Ryanair incur in processing payments. Quite recent is a much smaller (GBP 1/EUR 1.50) fee for Debit Cards. * Though there is a recent thread in this newsgroup saying people have noticed variations in tax for the same route/date. — Phil Richards (Satisfied Ryanair regular user)

Response:

> I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg > was not delayed by more than an hour),

Done 17 trips with Ryanair. Of these, 7 arrived 15-25 min early, 7 – punctually (within 10 minutes), and 3 – late, but within one hour. and when they arrived at Stansted > there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had > to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t > even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate.

Happens, but certainly not ‘over an hour’; 15-20 min maximum. Robert

Response:

> Also, apparently, their customer service is non-existent when things > go wrong.

I guess the claim is that you’re saving by not buying "insurance" the full-service carriers allegedly provide you

Response:

Traveller schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight, > Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones. > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black > hole > by booking with them? > No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… > every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take > your money and run.

This is the experience of a traveler with Volareweb posted in de.*. Flight was cancelled, no reaction on requests for refund. Regards, ULF

Response:

>We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline?

Yes. Just remember the old adage about getting what you pay for. Oh, and customer service appears to be something that other people do. One example – my wife was flying back from Italy to London Stansted on Ryanair. They were late (I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg was not delayed by more than an hour), and when they arrived at Stansted there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate. — /*  _  */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA" /* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+ /* |   */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j–;printf("  _/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]); /* _,hris Brown — All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */return 0;}

Response:

> This is the experience of a traveler with Volareweb posted in de.*. > Flight was cancelled, no reaction on requests for refund. > Regards, ULF

You should investigate further. Ryanair often gives away seats for free (you pay the tax).

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times?

Ryanair advertise themselves as a "point to point" airline. That is they don’t deal in the business of connections. You’ll get no sympathy if you miss a flight due to a Ryanair flight being delayed. Also, unlike a full-service airline, you can’t transfer your ticket to another carrier in the event of problems. They also push their fleet to the limits in terms of usage. If something goes wrong on a flight, it will have knock-on effects in other places, so punctuality will sometimes suffer because of that. Also, apparently, their customer service is non-existent when things go wrong. Having said all that, sometimes they have some major bargains, so they’re often worth considering, so long as you’re aware of the potential downsides and are prepared to be philosophical if things go wrong.

Response:

>Ryanair seem to be something you must necessary condemn or like…. >They advices clear from making connections as they can’t guarantee them >,also if the connection happens to be another Ryanair flight.   Their >flights are generally point to point and no frills,food is extra and so on. >They advertise a punctuality of 97% on time and 99% arrival of one hour >within scheduled time.  Bear in mind that punctuality is high profit for an >airline.

The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about ten minutes early. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

They seem to be cheap, but make sure you understand the true price – transfers to cities from some of thri airports can be difficult and expensive – their understanding of ‘Barcelona’ airport is misleading (60 miles from Barcelona) Their baggage limit is 15kg (IIRC) and they will charge you for every every gram over. If you have onward connections, don’t even think about it – they claim punctuality, but the numbers are disputed – if you miss a connection they will not assist in any way. Think of it like a bus that flies.

Response:

> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight, > Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones.

Yes, I’ve had this happen with Air Canada (although they put me on a preceding flight). > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black > hole > by booking with them? > No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… > every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take > your money and run.

I assumed this was the case. The alternative seemed too ludicrous, but it is practically the impression I got. From the FR website: > a.. "If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight > is available, we will, upon application, fully refund all monies paid in > respect of the cancelled flight, without further liability. Ryanair does not > provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled > flights at any time. " > Of course, with a customer service department of 4 people and no phones, it > could take a while to get your refund.

True enough. > As Hilary has said, next available flight.  If you’re somewhere that’s not > well served (maybe 1x/day) and it’s high season, it could be DAYS before > there’s an available seat.  A good travel insurance policy will cover you > for this kind of problem and maybe even let you buy a ticket on another > carrier and get it back off the insurance..

OK, I think we may need better travel insurance. We are taking two RyanAir flights that each have two or three flights per day during the course of our trip. Both are at night. If we had to spend the night in the airport, it wouldn’t be a tragedy. But if we had to wait for days that could be a problem. The two flights we are taking are Stansted-Aarhus (after arriving in London 30 hours before) and Torp (Oslo) – Stansted (50 hours before we catch a London plane back home). So how do we get this travel insurance? We have plenty of health insurance, but are probably lacking what you are talking about. Traveler

Response:

Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally cancel a flight, and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black hole by booking with them? Or – if they cancel a flight by their own decision, do they agree you can go on the next flight? Traveler

Response:

>(Ray) wrote >We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >Thanks,  Ray

[...] >2 I have travelled three times with Ryanair. On each occasion the >flights were to time. Their old Boeing 737-200 planes did not inspire >me particularly, but the new 737-800s were fine.

[...] >6 No food is provided free. Tea, Coffee, soft and alcoholic drinks can be >bought when on board, and I think you may also be able to buy a sandwich. >Most passengers eat in the airport beforehand or take a sandwich with >them onboard.

Be aware, too, that if you want, say, a rum and coke, you will pay for the rum and you will pay for the coke.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight,

Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones. > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black hole > by booking with them?

No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take your money and run.  From the FR website: a.. "If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight is available, we will, upon application, fully refund all monies paid in respect of the cancelled flight, without further liability. Ryanair does not provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled flights at any time. " Of course, with a customer service department of 4 people and no phones, it could take a while to get your refund. > Or – if they cancel a flight by their own decision, do they agree you can go > on the next flight? > Traveler

As Hilary has said, next available flight.  If you’re somewhere that’s not well served (maybe 1x/day) and it’s high season, it could be DAYS before there’s an available seat.  A good travel insurance policy will cover you for this kind of problem and maybe even let you buy a ticket on another carrier and get it back off the insurance..

Response:

Frankfurt-Hahn is working great for me for our trip to Italy from Germany.  A good friend lives closer to Hahn than Frankfurt-Main and well, saves gas, Free parking at Hahn,   and it lands near a train station in Forli.. We arnt going to Bologna, but to Rome instead. Sure it would have been cheaper to fly into Rome, but we wouldn’t get to see great countryside! and have a few good hours BSing on the train.. So to *some* people these airports are better..   all depends where Point B is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray >Ryan Air is as much a bus company as an airline.  They do not use the major >airports at the principle cities.  For example at Frankfurt they use Hahn >airport which involves a bus ride of close to an hour from Frankfurt, same >thing for Paris, Stockholm etc.  Bus ride is often of longer duration than >the flight and the cost can be as much as the flight.  If you have lots and >lots of time and your time is not important to you Ryan Air is very cheap >and just the airline for you.  If your time is worth something you may not >be so thrilled with them.  I’m not. >Ryan

Response:

>>Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >The claim as high a level of punctuality as other airlines, but they >accept no responsibility if you miss a connection. In fact, if >anything goes wrong, they are not helpful. Aggressively unhelpful. >Bring sandwiches.

Agreed – they are known for their "couldn’t care less attitutde" – take a look at http://www.aardvarktravel.net/chat/viewtopic.php?t=835 for a classic example. Aaron Chat about travel on http://www.aardvarktravel.net/chat or submit your travel site to our travel search engine… FREE!! ( http://www.aardvarktravel.net and click on ‘Add Your Site’)

Response:

(Ray) wrote >We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >Thanks,  Ray

1 Please put the insurance item into context. British passengers do not pay health insurance every month as The National Health service is funded by taxation. Therefore travel insurance is necessary when Britons travel abroad. Some travel agents will not sell tickets on any overseas flight unless they know that the passenger has travel insurance. 2 I have travelled three times with Ryanair. On each occasion the flights were to time. Their old Boeing 737-200 planes did not inspire me particularly, but the new 737-800s were fine. 3 Some airports are a distance from the target destination. This may/may not suit you, depending on where you want to go. My own experience has been that the bus journey at the far end has not been excessively expensive. 4 The luggage allowance is 15kg which is 33 lbs. Excess weight may well be charged for, so make sure that your cases are not overweight. 5 Seating is unregulated. You take whichever unoccupied seat you like. If you get on board early, you get a good choice. If you are last on board and the flight is full, you may not be able to sit beside your travelling companions. 6 No food is provided free. Tea, Coffee, soft and alcoholic drinks can be bought when on board, and I think you may also be able to buy a sandwich. Most passengers eat in the airport beforehand or take a sandwich with them onboard. 7 You may also be able to buy an onward bus ticket during the flight, possibly depending on the route. 8 Horror stories of cancelled flights are true, but rare. If the plane does not fly you are completely on your own, but the chances of this happening are fairly remote. Your reservation is valid only on the flight you have booked, and checkin times are strictly enforced. It is wise not to have other arrangements (like an intercontinental flight) dependant on a connection. Having said all the above you have a high chance of getting where you want, when you want. 9 The best fares are when THEY want you to fly. The costs when YOU want to fly may be more. The headline fare does not include taxes. The real fare is what appears on the very last screen on which you agree to having your credit card charged, including four pounds or so for the privilege of using a credit card for the booking. As long as you do your homework beforehand and know exactly what you are purchasing you should be OK, but do the research work first. Best of luck!

Response:

We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they arrive close enough to stated arrival times? Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Ray

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

Ryan Air is as much a bus company as an airline.  They do not use the major airports at the principle cities.  For example at Frankfurt they use Hahn airport which involves a bus ride of close to an hour from Frankfurt, same thing for Paris, Stockholm etc.  Bus ride is often of longer duration than the flight and the cost can be as much as the flight.  If you have lots and lots of time and your time is not important to you Ryan Air is very cheap and just the airline for you.  If your time is worth something you may not be so thrilled with them.  I’m not. Ryan

Response:

>We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated!

The claim as high a level of punctuality as other airlines, but they accept no responsibility if you miss a connection. In fact, if anything goes wrong, they are not helpful. Aggressively unhelpful. Bring sandwiches. PB

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

Ryanair seem to be something you must necessary condemn or like…. They advices clear from making connections as they can’t guarantee them ,also if the connection happens to be another Ryanair flight.   Their flights are generally point to point and no frills,food is extra and so on. They advertise a punctuality of 97% on time and 99% arrival of one hour within scheduled time.  Bear in mind that punctuality is high profit for an airline.  Allow plenty of time for the connection and you’re probably safe  or break the journey for a day at a destination ??

Response:

> I’m particularly concerned about their reliability — do > they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times?

You can argue about statistics and personal experiences until you’re blue in the face, but over the last two or three years the worst delays I’ve had have been on short-haul scheduled flights leaving Heathrow all thanks to air traffic control. My own personal experience is Stansted is much better, I’ve made several times more departures from there with the likes of Ryanair with much better punctuality…. — Phil Richards London, N4

Response:

>The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about >ten minutes early.

yep…no problems  i had  a 2 hours delay but it was caused by the fog in charleroi

Response:

>Bring sandwiches.

they  sell them on board for 4  pounds not cheap…but i recomend the hot bacon

Response:

>>The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about >ten minutes early. >yep…no problems > i had  a 2 hours delay but it was caused by the fog in charleroi

You mean "Brussels", don’t you? PB

Response:

> I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg > was not delayed by more than an hour),

Done 17 trips with Ryanair. Of these, 7 arrived 15-25 min early, 7 – punctually (within 10 minutes), and 3 – late, but within one hour. and when they arrived at Stansted > there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had > to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t > even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate.

Happens, but certainly not ‘over an hour’; 15-20 min maximum. Robert

Response:

Flying with Delta, and US Air and an extinct airline Eastern  they were all mostly on time. A few were early, a few we late.   Heck back in 94, we sat on the runway for 45 minutes waiting for a thunderstorm to pass in Charlotte. Flying back into Atlanta we were late because an AeroMexico plane skipped its position in line and got on our runway and had to abort landing.. So even the big major carriers are late or early.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg > was not delayed by more than an hour), >Done 17 trips with Ryanair. Of these, 7 arrived 15-25 min early, 7 – >punctually (within 10 minutes), and 3 – late, but within one hour. >and when they arrived at Stansted > there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had > to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t > even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate. >Happens, but certainly not ‘over an hour’; 15-20 min maximum. >Robert

Response:

deja.com> said… > 9 The best fares are when THEY want you to fly. The costs when YOU want to > fly may be more.

Which comes down to supply and demand, when the flights are not heavily booked the fares are kept down, sometimes artificially down to the point when they literally give the seat away for next to nothing. Opt to travel at a time when everyone else wants/has to travel means your fare might be much higher. > The headline fare does not include taxes.

As often the tax is more than the fare! And scheduled airlines get away with that old trick too! > The real fare is what appears on the very last screen on which you agree > to having your credit card charged, including four pounds or so for the > privilege of using a credit card for the booking.

Think you need to go back and check this! Stage one is the basic fare per person, per leg. IMO that enables you to select the flight(s) you want as it is the only variable cost since the taxes are fixed "add on" (*) Stage two is the total fares for the flights plus taxes. Once you get to the screen you enter your payment details you’ll see: Card Type – a handling fee applies for Credit/Debit Cards, click for details. The higher fee (GBP 4/EUR 6) for Credit Cards has been in place for a long while, that’s to cover the charges Ryanair incur in processing payments. Quite recent is a much smaller (GBP 1/EUR 1.50) fee for Debit Cards. * Though there is a recent thread in this newsgroup saying people have noticed variations in tax for the same route/date. — Phil Richards (Satisfied Ryanair regular user)

Response:

>So how do we get this travel > insurance? We > have plenty of health insurance, but are probably lacking what you are > talking about.

Reasonably-priced insurance is available through the Ryanair Website (I don’t know if it’s available to North American residents, though, and it may be awkward to claim from a UK-based insurer from out of the country). But of course there is no obligation or indeed any particular advantage to buying your insurance from Ryanair’s partner — you could start by asking your medical/house/car/dog/whatever insurers if they offer travel insurance. It’s worth thinking carefully about what kind of trips you plan to make over the next year. If you’re travelling a lot, 52-week whole-world cover works out much cheaper than buying a new policy afresh for each trip. But if this is likely to be your only trip, that’s overkill and you can save by purchasing a Europe-only policy just for the duration of your holiday. Also check what your existing medical/house/etc. insurances cover. It’s rather unlikely that they’ll extend to missed flights, but you may find for example that your home contents insurance also covers loss of or damage to personal items outside the home. How much research effort you want to put into saving what may be just a few dollars is, of course, up to you!

Response:

> Also, apparently, their customer service is non-existent when things > go wrong.

I guess the claim is that you’re saving by not buying "insurance" the full-service carriers allegedly provide you

Response:

Traveller schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight, > Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones. > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black > hole > by booking with them? > No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… > every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take > your money and run.

This is the experience of a traveler with Volareweb posted in de.*. Flight was cancelled, no reaction on requests for refund. Regards, ULF

Response:

> This is the experience of a traveler with Volareweb posted in de.*. > Flight was cancelled, no reaction on requests for refund. > Regards, ULF

You should investigate further. Ryanair often gives away seats for free (you pay the tax).

Response:

>We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline?

Yes. Just remember the old adage about getting what you pay for. Oh, and customer service appears to be something that other people do. One example – my wife was flying back from Italy to London Stansted on Ryanair. They were late (I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg was not delayed by more than an hour), and when they arrived at Stansted there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate. — /*  _  */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA" /* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+ /* |   */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j–;printf("  _/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]); /* _,hris Brown — All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */return 0;}

Response:

>Ryanair seem to be something you must necessary condemn or like…. >They advices clear from making connections as they can’t guarantee them >,also if the connection happens to be another Ryanair flight.   Their >flights are generally point to point and no frills,food is extra and so on. >They advertise a punctuality of 97% on time and 99% arrival of one hour >within scheduled time.  Bear in mind that punctuality is high profit for an >airline.

The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about ten minutes early. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times?

Ryanair advertise themselves as a "point to point" airline. That is they don’t deal in the business of connections. You’ll get no sympathy if you miss a flight due to a Ryanair flight being delayed. Also, unlike a full-service airline, you can’t transfer your ticket to another carrier in the event of problems. They also push their fleet to the limits in terms of usage. If something goes wrong on a flight, it will have knock-on effects in other places, so punctuality will sometimes suffer because of that. Also, apparently, their customer service is non-existent when things go wrong. Having said all that, sometimes they have some major bargains, so they’re often worth considering, so long as you’re aware of the potential downsides and are prepared to be philosophical if things go wrong.

Response:

> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight, > Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones.

Yes, I’ve had this happen with Air Canada (although they put me on a preceding flight). > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black > hole > by booking with them? > No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… > every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take > your money and run.

I assumed this was the case. The alternative seemed too ludicrous, but it is practically the impression I got. From the FR website: > a.. "If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight > is available, we will, upon application, fully refund all monies paid in > respect of the cancelled flight, without further liability. Ryanair does not > provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled > flights at any time. " > Of course, with a customer service department of 4 people and no phones, it > could take a while to get your refund.

True enough. > As Hilary has said, next available flight.  If you’re somewhere that’s not > well served (maybe 1x/day) and it’s high season, it could be DAYS before > there’s an available seat.  A good travel insurance policy will cover you > for this kind of problem and maybe even let you buy a ticket on another > carrier and get it back off the insurance..

OK, I think we may need better travel insurance. We are taking two RyanAir flights that each have two or three flights per day during the course of our trip. Both are at night. If we had to spend the night in the airport, it wouldn’t be a tragedy. But if we had to wait for days that could be a problem. The two flights we are taking are Stansted-Aarhus (after arriving in London 30 hours before) and Torp (Oslo) – Stansted (50 hours before we catch a London plane back home). So how do we get this travel insurance? We have plenty of health insurance, but are probably lacking what you are talking about. Traveler

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

They seem to be cheap, but make sure you understand the true price – transfers to cities from some of thri airports can be difficult and expensive – their understanding of ‘Barcelona’ airport is misleading (60 miles from Barcelona) Their baggage limit is 15kg (IIRC) and they will charge you for every every gram over. If you have onward connections, don’t even think about it – they claim punctuality, but the numbers are disputed – if you miss a connection they will not assist in any way. Think of it like a bus that flies.

Response:

>(Ray) wrote >We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >Thanks,  Ray

[...] >2 I have travelled three times with Ryanair. On each occasion the >flights were to time. Their old Boeing 737-200 planes did not inspire >me particularly, but the new 737-800s were fine.

[...] >6 No food is provided free. Tea, Coffee, soft and alcoholic drinks can be >bought when on board, and I think you may also be able to buy a sandwich. >Most passengers eat in the airport beforehand or take a sandwich with >them onboard.

Be aware, too, that if you want, say, a rum and coke, you will pay for the rum and you will pay for the coke.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight,

Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones. > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black hole > by booking with them?

No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take your money and run.  From the FR website: a.. "If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight is available, we will, upon application, fully refund all monies paid in respect of the cancelled flight, without further liability. Ryanair does not provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled flights at any time. " Of course, with a customer service department of 4 people and no phones, it could take a while to get your refund. > Or – if they cancel a flight by their own decision, do they agree you can go > on the next flight? > Traveler

As Hilary has said, next available flight.  If you’re somewhere that’s not well served (maybe 1x/day) and it’s high season, it could be DAYS before there’s an available seat.  A good travel insurance policy will cover you for this kind of problem and maybe even let you buy a ticket on another carrier and get it back off the insurance..

Response:

Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally cancel a flight, and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black hole by booking with them? Or – if they cancel a flight by their own decision, do they agree you can go on the next flight? Traveler

Response:

>>Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >The claim as high a level of punctuality as other airlines, but they >accept no responsibility if you miss a connection. In fact, if >anything goes wrong, they are not helpful. Aggressively unhelpful. >Bring sandwiches.

Agreed – they are known for their "couldn’t care less attitutde" – take a look at http://www.aardvarktravel.net/chat/viewtopic.php?t=835 for a classic example. Aaron Chat about travel on http://www.aardvarktravel.net/chat or submit your travel site to our travel search engine… FREE!! ( http://www.aardvarktravel.net and click on ‘Add Your Site’)

Response:

(Ray) wrote >We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >Thanks,  Ray

1 Please put the insurance item into context. British passengers do not pay health insurance every month as The National Health service is funded by taxation. Therefore travel insurance is necessary when Britons travel abroad. Some travel agents will not sell tickets on any overseas flight unless they know that the passenger has travel insurance. 2 I have travelled three times with Ryanair. On each occasion the flights were to time. Their old Boeing 737-200 planes did not inspire me particularly, but the new 737-800s were fine. 3 Some airports are a distance from the target destination. This may/may not suit you, depending on where you want to go. My own experience has been that the bus journey at the far end has not been excessively expensive. 4 The luggage allowance is 15kg which is 33 lbs. Excess weight may well be charged for, so make sure that your cases are not overweight. 5 Seating is unregulated. You take whichever unoccupied seat you like. If you get on board early, you get a good choice. If you are last on board and the flight is full, you may not be able to sit beside your travelling companions. 6 No food is provided free. Tea, Coffee, soft and alcoholic drinks can be bought when on board, and I think you may also be able to buy a sandwich. Most passengers eat in the airport beforehand or take a sandwich with them onboard. 7 You may also be able to buy an onward bus ticket during the flight, possibly depending on the route. 8 Horror stories of cancelled flights are true, but rare. If the plane does not fly you are completely on your own, but the chances of this happening are fairly remote. Your reservation is valid only on the flight you have booked, and checkin times are strictly enforced. It is wise not to have other arrangements (like an intercontinental flight) dependant on a connection. Having said all the above you have a high chance of getting where you want, when you want. 9 The best fares are when THEY want you to fly. The costs when YOU want to fly may be more. The headline fare does not include taxes. The real fare is what appears on the very last screen on which you agree to having your credit card charged, including four pounds or so for the privilege of using a credit card for the booking. As long as you do your homework beforehand and know exactly what you are purchasing you should be OK, but do the research work first. Best of luck!

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

Ryanair seem to be something you must necessary condemn or like…. They advices clear from making connections as they can’t guarantee them ,also if the connection happens to be another Ryanair flight.   Their flights are generally point to point and no frills,food is extra and so on. They advertise a punctuality of 97% on time and 99% arrival of one hour within scheduled time.  Bear in mind that punctuality is high profit for an airline.  Allow plenty of time for the connection and you’re probably safe  or break the journey for a day at a destination ??

Response:

> to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated!

The other posters gave you a pretty good resume, so I’ll just add this: on my flights Stansted-Dublin, Dublin-Stansted they did not only arrive exactly on time, but were always 20 mins ahead of schedule. Quite incredible they managed that in both directions in that dense airspace, but there you are. I recall the pilot going from taxiing to take- off without the slightest stop or so much as a brake (Dublin). In fact they also landed on the very first few meters of the runway. When leaving the plane, I saw the next bunch of passengers waiting for us to clear the gate. So, RyanAir is on a real tight schedule. I don’t believe this is good for the pilots’ nerves, and indeed there have been rumors some months ago that some of their pilots had alcohol problems. RyanAir denied that and I have not heard more of it. Their planes are 737s, which I like because they’re sturdy. The plane I flew with was very obviously bought from German Condor – they hadn’t bother to change the signs on-board to English. Their planes are also maintained by Lufthansa, at least in Germany. Well, hope that helps. R

Response:

>We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated!

The claim as high a level of punctuality as other airlines, but they accept no responsibility if you miss a connection. In fact, if anything goes wrong, they are not helpful. Aggressively unhelpful. Bring sandwiches. PB

Response:

We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they arrive close enough to stated arrival times? Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Ray

Response:

> I’m particularly concerned about their reliability — do > they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times?

You can argue about statistics and personal experiences until you’re blue in the face, but over the last two or three years the worst delays I’ve had have been on short-haul scheduled flights leaving Heathrow all thanks to air traffic control. My own personal experience is Stansted is much better, I’ve made several times more departures from there with the likes of Ryanair with much better punctuality…. — Phil Richards London, N4

Response:

>The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about >ten minutes early.

yep…no problems  i had  a 2 hours delay but it was caused by the fog in charleroi

Response:

>Bring sandwiches.

they  sell them on board for 4  pounds not cheap…but i recomend the hot bacon

Response:

>>The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about >ten minutes early. >yep…no problems > i had  a 2 hours delay but it was caused by the fog in charleroi

You mean "Brussels", don’t you? PB

Response:

> I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg > was not delayed by more than an hour),

Done 17 trips with Ryanair. Of these, 7 arrived 15-25 min early, 7 – punctually (within 10 minutes), and 3 – late, but within one hour. and when they arrived at Stansted > there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had > to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t > even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate.

Happens, but certainly not ‘over an hour’; 15-20 min maximum. Robert

Response:

Flying with Delta, and US Air and an extinct airline Eastern  they were all mostly on time. A few were early, a few we late.   Heck back in 94, we sat on the runway for 45 minutes waiting for a thunderstorm to pass in Charlotte. Flying back into Atlanta we were late because an AeroMexico plane skipped its position in line and got on our runway and had to abort landing.. So even the big major carriers are late or early.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg > was not delayed by more than an hour), >Done 17 trips with Ryanair. Of these, 7 arrived 15-25 min early, 7 – >punctually (within 10 minutes), and 3 – late, but within one hour. >and when they arrived at Stansted > there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had > to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t > even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate. >Happens, but certainly not ‘over an hour’; 15-20 min maximum. >Robert

Response:

deja.com> said… > 9 The best fares are when THEY want you to fly. The costs when YOU want to > fly may be more.

Which comes down to supply and demand, when the flights are not heavily booked the fares are kept down, sometimes artificially down to the point when they literally give the seat away for next to nothing. Opt to travel at a time when everyone else wants/has to travel means your fare might be much higher. > The headline fare does not include taxes.

As often the tax is more than the fare! And scheduled airlines get away with that old trick too! > The real fare is what appears on the very last screen on which you agree > to having your credit card charged, including four pounds or so for the > privilege of using a credit card for the booking.

Think you need to go back and check this! Stage one is the basic fare per person, per leg. IMO that enables you to select the flight(s) you want as it is the only variable cost since the taxes are fixed "add on" (*) Stage two is the total fares for the flights plus taxes. Once you get to the screen you enter your payment details you’ll see: Card Type – a handling fee applies for Credit/Debit Cards, click for details. The higher fee (GBP 4/EUR 6) for Credit Cards has been in place for a long while, that’s to cover the charges Ryanair incur in processing payments. Quite recent is a much smaller (GBP 1/EUR 1.50) fee for Debit Cards. * Though there is a recent thread in this newsgroup saying people have noticed variations in tax for the same route/date. — Phil Richards (Satisfied Ryanair regular user)

Response:

>So how do we get this travel > insurance? We > have plenty of health insurance, but are probably lacking what you are > talking about.

Reasonably-priced insurance is available through the Ryanair Website (I don’t know if it’s available to North American residents, though, and it may be awkward to claim from a UK-based insurer from out of the country). But of course there is no obligation or indeed any particular advantage to buying your insurance from Ryanair’s partner — you could start by asking your medical/house/car/dog/whatever insurers if they offer travel insurance. It’s worth thinking carefully about what kind of trips you plan to make over the next year. If you’re travelling a lot, 52-week whole-world cover works out much cheaper than buying a new policy afresh for each trip. But if this is likely to be your only trip, that’s overkill and you can save by purchasing a Europe-only policy just for the duration of your holiday. Also check what your existing medical/house/etc. insurances cover. It’s rather unlikely that they’ll extend to missed flights, but you may find for example that your home contents insurance also covers loss of or damage to personal items outside the home. How much research effort you want to put into saving what may be just a few dollars is, of course, up to you!

Response:

> Also, apparently, their customer service is non-existent when things > go wrong.

I guess the claim is that you’re saving by not buying "insurance" the full-service carriers allegedly provide you

Response:

Traveller schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight, > Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones. > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black > hole > by booking with them? > No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… > every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take > your money and run.

This is the experience of a traveler with Volareweb posted in de.*. Flight was cancelled, no reaction on requests for refund. Regards, ULF

Response:

> This is the experience of a traveler with Volareweb posted in de.*. > Flight was cancelled, no reaction on requests for refund. > Regards, ULF

You should investigate further. Ryanair often gives away seats for free (you pay the tax).

Response:

>We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline?

Yes. Just remember the old adage about getting what you pay for. Oh, and customer service appears to be something that other people do. One example – my wife was flying back from Italy to London Stansted on Ryanair. They were late (I have yet to be on a Ryanair flight where at least one leg was not delayed by more than an hour), and when they arrived at Stansted there was no-one there from the ground staff to open the gate. They all had to sit in the plane for over an hour with poor ventillation (the crew didn’t even open the door) until someone came and opened the gate. — /*  _  */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA" /* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+ /* |   */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j–;printf("  _/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]); /* _,hris Brown — All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */return 0;}

Response:

>Ryanair seem to be something you must necessary condemn or like…. >They advices clear from making connections as they can’t guarantee them >,also if the connection happens to be another Ryanair flight.   Their >flights are generally point to point and no frills,food is extra and so on. >They advertise a punctuality of 97% on time and 99% arrival of one hour >within scheduled time.  Bear in mind that punctuality is high profit for an >airline.

The two Ryanair flights I’ve taken actually departed and arrived about ten minutes early. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times?

Ryanair advertise themselves as a "point to point" airline. That is they don’t deal in the business of connections. You’ll get no sympathy if you miss a flight due to a Ryanair flight being delayed. Also, unlike a full-service airline, you can’t transfer your ticket to another carrier in the event of problems. They also push their fleet to the limits in terms of usage. If something goes wrong on a flight, it will have knock-on effects in other places, so punctuality will sometimes suffer because of that. Also, apparently, their customer service is non-existent when things go wrong. Having said all that, sometimes they have some major bargains, so they’re often worth considering, so long as you’re aware of the potential downsides and are prepared to be philosophical if things go wrong.

Response:

> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight, > Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones.

Yes, I’ve had this happen with Air Canada (although they put me on a preceding flight). > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black > hole > by booking with them? > No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… > every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take > your money and run.

I assumed this was the case. The alternative seemed too ludicrous, but it is practically the impression I got. From the FR website: > a.. "If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight > is available, we will, upon application, fully refund all monies paid in > respect of the cancelled flight, without further liability. Ryanair does not > provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled > flights at any time. " > Of course, with a customer service department of 4 people and no phones, it > could take a while to get your refund.

True enough. > As Hilary has said, next available flight.  If you’re somewhere that’s not > well served (maybe 1x/day) and it’s high season, it could be DAYS before > there’s an available seat.  A good travel insurance policy will cover you > for this kind of problem and maybe even let you buy a ticket on another > carrier and get it back off the insurance..

OK, I think we may need better travel insurance. We are taking two RyanAir flights that each have two or three flights per day during the course of our trip. Both are at night. If we had to spend the night in the airport, it wouldn’t be a tragedy. But if we had to wait for days that could be a problem. The two flights we are taking are Stansted-Aarhus (after arriving in London 30 hours before) and Torp (Oslo) – Stansted (50 hours before we catch a London plane back home). So how do we get this travel insurance? We have plenty of health insurance, but are probably lacking what you are talking about. Traveler

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

They seem to be cheap, but make sure you understand the true price – transfers to cities from some of thri airports can be difficult and expensive – their understanding of ‘Barcelona’ airport is misleading (60 miles from Barcelona) Their baggage limit is 15kg (IIRC) and they will charge you for every every gram over. If you have onward connections, don’t even think about it – they claim punctuality, but the numbers are disputed – if you miss a connection they will not assist in any way. Think of it like a bus that flies.

Response:

>(Ray) wrote >We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >Thanks,  Ray

[...] >2 I have travelled three times with Ryanair. On each occasion the >flights were to time. Their old Boeing 737-200 planes did not inspire >me particularly, but the new 737-800s were fine.

[...] >6 No food is provided free. Tea, Coffee, soft and alcoholic drinks can be >bought when on board, and I think you may also be able to buy a sandwich. >Most passengers eat in the airport beforehand or take a sandwich with >them onboard.

Be aware, too, that if you want, say, a rum and coke, you will pay for the rum and you will pay for the coke.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

> Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally > cancel a flight,

Yes… and so do many other carriers including "full service" ones. > and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they > cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black hole > by booking with them?

No.  If they cancel a flight, you’re entitled to a refund of your fare… every airline has to abide by this principle, otherwise they could just take your money and run.  From the FR website: a.. "If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight is available, we will, upon application, fully refund all monies paid in respect of the cancelled flight, without further liability. Ryanair does not provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled flights at any time. " Of course, with a customer service department of 4 people and no phones, it could take a while to get your refund. > Or – if they cancel a flight by their own decision, do they agree you can go > on the next flight? > Traveler

As Hilary has said, next available flight.  If you’re somewhere that’s not well served (maybe 1x/day) and it’s high season, it could be DAYS before there’s an available seat.  A good travel insurance policy will cover you for this kind of problem and maybe even let you buy a ticket on another carrier and get it back off the insurance..

Response:

Do I understand correctly that they can both 1) decide to unilaterally cancel a flight, and 2) decide they won’t refund any of your money if they cancel a flight? In other words, you can just throw money into a black hole by booking with them? Or – if they cancel a flight by their own decision, do they agree you can go on the next flight? Traveler

Response:

>>Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >The claim as high a level of punctuality as other airlines, but they >accept no responsibility if you miss a connection. In fact, if >anything goes wrong, they are not helpful. Aggressively unhelpful. >Bring sandwiches.

Agreed – they are known for their "couldn’t care less attitutde" – take a look at http://www.aardvarktravel.net/chat/viewtopic.php?t=835 for a classic example. Aaron Chat about travel on http://www.aardvarktravel.net/chat or submit your travel site to our travel search engine… FREE!! ( http://www.aardvarktravel.net and click on ‘Add Your Site’)

Response:

(Ray) wrote >We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! >Thanks,  Ray

1 Please put the insurance item into context. British passengers do not pay health insurance every month as The National Health service is funded by taxation. Therefore travel insurance is necessary when Britons travel abroad. Some travel agents will not sell tickets on any overseas flight unless they know that the passenger has travel insurance. 2 I have travelled three times with Ryanair. On each occasion the flights were to time. Their old Boeing 737-200 planes did not inspire me particularly, but the new 737-800s were fine. 3 Some airports are a distance from the target destination. This may/may not suit you, depending on where you want to go. My own experience has been that the bus journey at the far end has not been excessively expensive. 4 The luggage allowance is 15kg which is 33 lbs. Excess weight may well be charged for, so make sure that your cases are not overweight. 5 Seating is unregulated. You take whichever unoccupied seat you like. If you get on board early, you get a good choice. If you are last on board and the flight is full, you may not be able to sit beside your travelling companions. 6 No food is provided free. Tea, Coffee, soft and alcoholic drinks can be bought when on board, and I think you may also be able to buy a sandwich. Most passengers eat in the airport beforehand or take a sandwich with them onboard. 7 You may also be able to buy an onward bus ticket during the flight, possibly depending on the route. 8 Horror stories of cancelled flights are true, but rare. If the plane does not fly you are completely on your own, but the chances of this happening are fairly remote. Your reservation is valid only on the flight you have booked, and checkin times are strictly enforced. It is wise not to have other arrangements (like an intercontinental flight) dependant on a connection. Having said all the above you have a high chance of getting where you want, when you want. 9 The best fares are when THEY want you to fly. The costs when YOU want to fly may be more. The headline fare does not include taxes. The real fare is what appears on the very last screen on which you agree to having your credit card charged, including four pounds or so for the privilege of using a credit card for the booking. As long as you do your homework beforehand and know exactly what you are purchasing you should be OK, but do the research work first. Best of luck!

Response:

> We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by > Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance > is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this > airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected > to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Ray

Ryanair seem to be something you must necessary condemn or like…. They advices clear from making connections as they can’t guarantee them ,also if the connection happens to be another Ryanair flight.   Their flights are generally point to point and no frills,food is extra and so on. They advertise a punctuality of 97% on time and 99% arrival of one hour within scheduled time.  Bear in mind that punctuality is high profit for an airline.  Allow plenty of time for the connection and you’re probably safe  or break the journey for a day at a destination ??

Response:

> to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their > reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they > arrive close enough to stated arrival times? > Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated!

The other posters gave you a pretty good resume, so I’ll just add this: on my flights Stansted-Dublin, Dublin-Stansted they did not only arrive exactly on time, but were always 20 mins ahead of schedule. Quite incredible they managed that in both directions in that dense airspace, but there you are. I recall the pilot going from taxiing to take- off without the slightest stop or so much as a brake (Dublin). In fact they also landed on the very first few meters of the runway. When leaving the plane, I saw the next bunch of passengers waiting for us to clear the gate. So, RyanAir is on a real tight schedule. I don’t believe this is good for the pilots’ nerves, and indeed there have been rumors some months ago that some of their pilots had alcohol problems. RyanAir denied that and I have not heard more of it. Their planes are 737s, which I like because they’re sturdy. The plane I flew with was very obviously bought from German Condor – they hadn’t bother to change the signs on-board to English. Their planes are also maintained by Lufthansa, at least in Germany. Well, hope that helps. R

Response:

>We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by >Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance >is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this >airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected >to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their >reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they >arrive close enough to stated arrival times? >Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated!

The claim as high a level of punctuality as other airlines, but they accept no responsibility if you miss a connection. In fact, if anything goes wrong, they are not helpful. Aggressively unhelpful. Bring sandwiches. PB

Response:

We are travelling within Europe this summer and are intrigued by Ryanair’s low fares (the fact they highly recommend travel insurance is a somewhat concerning). Does anyone have experience flying on this airline? Since some of the flights we would like to take are connected to/from non-Ryanair flights, I’m particularly concerned about their reliability — do they generally stick to their schedules and do they arrive close enough to stated arrival times? Any other tips when using this airline would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Ray

Response:

Question:

I need help!!  I’m taking a cruise soon and would like to take the train from Rome’s Central Station to Civitavecchia.  Once I get there, I need to find the best way to get to the ship at the crusie terminal.  Does any know how to do this?  Is it close enought to walk with several suit cases? If I need to take a taxi, what is the approximate cost? or is there a bus? If anyone knows, I need pretty good directions. Thanks Julie

Response:

>Once I get there, I need to find the best >way to get to the ship at the crusie >terminal.

I’ve only passed-by the station and the docks by train but they didn’t seem that far apart. But with luggage, too far.  Try www.fodors.com/forums/ [Europe] in the "Text Search" put in civitavecchia click-on "Italy" & "Find". It will pull-up *alot* of past posts about the port and transportation.  If you register you can post for more recent info. Regards, Walter ..And Paradise Was Lost…like teardrops in the rain…

Response:

>Once I get there, I need to find the best >way to get to the ship at the crusie >terminal. > I’ve only passed-by the station and the docks by train but they didn’t > seem that far apart. But with luggage, too far. >  Try www.fodors.com/forums/ [Europe] in the "Text Search" put in > civitavecchia click-on "Italy" & "Find". It will pull-up *alot* of past > posts about the port and transportation. >  If you register you can post for more recent info. Regards, Walter

You might also try rec.travel.cruises . GG

Response:

>I need help!!  I’m taking a cruise soon and would like to take the >train from Rome’s Central Station to Civitavecchia.  Once I get there, >I need to find the best way to get to the ship at the crusie terminal. > Does any know how to do this?  Is it close enought to walk with >several suit cases? If I need to take a taxi, what is the approximate >cost? or is there a bus? If anyone knows, I need pretty good >directions. >Thanks Julie

There is a train from Termini to Cv. every two hours.  It’s about an hour train ride and costs $20.  You’ll need a taxi from Cv. terminal to the ship, but it’s only a few dollars/euros. — "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."          - Abraham Lincoln

Response:

I need help!!  I’m taking a cruise soon and would like to take the train from Rome’s Central Station to Civitavecchia.  Once I get there, I need to find the best way to get to the ship at the crusie terminal.  Does any know how to do this?  Is it close enought to walk with several suit cases? If I need to take a taxi, what is the approximate cost? or is there a bus? If anyone knows, I need pretty good directions. Thanks Julie

Response:

>Once I get there, I need to find the best >way to get to the ship at the crusie >terminal.

I’ve only passed-by the station and the docks by train but they didn’t seem that far apart. But with luggage, too far.  Try www.fodors.com/forums/ [Europe] in the "Text Search" put in civitavecchia click-on "Italy" & "Find". It will pull-up *alot* of past posts about the port and transportation.  If you register you can post for more recent info. Regards, Walter ..And Paradise Was Lost…like teardrops in the rain…

Response:

>Once I get there, I need to find the best >way to get to the ship at the crusie >terminal. > I’ve only passed-by the station and the docks by train but they didn’t > seem that far apart. But with luggage, too far. >  Try www.fodors.com/forums/ [Europe] in the "Text Search" put in > civitavecchia click-on "Italy" & "Find". It will pull-up *alot* of past > posts about the port and transportation. >  If you register you can post for more recent info. Regards, Walter

You might also try rec.travel.cruises . GG

Response:

>I need help!!  I’m taking a cruise soon and would like to take the >train from Rome’s Central Station to Civitavecchia.  Once I get there, >I need to find the best way to get to the ship at the crusie terminal. > Does any know how to do this?  Is it close enought to walk with >several suit cases? If I need to take a taxi, what is the approximate >cost? or is there a bus? If anyone knows, I need pretty good >directions. >Thanks Julie

There is a train from Termini to Cv. every two hours.  It’s about an hour train ride and costs $20.  You’ll need a taxi from Cv. terminal to the ship, but it’s only a few dollars/euros. — "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."          - Abraham Lincoln

Response:

Question:

Hi all, In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. Well, I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and that its nearly impossible to get around there by car. What do you all think?? Is a tour better then going alone (I’ll actually be with my sister). My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of people speak English there anyway and I probably know enough to get by. I’ll be going to Munich and I think my greatest fear is that I’ll get there and not know what to do or how to find it. But still, I really would rather not go on a tour because I much prefer being able to explore things myself.. I’m only going for 9 days so maybe this is all a moot point as I won’t be able to see that much anyway. Anyway, thanks for any advice you might have. Sincerely, Anthony P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

Response:

Mr. A Venez asked many questions about a nine-day trip to Germany. You can easily spend nine days in and around Munich.  I agree, a tour is generally fast-paced and not the nicest way to see the places which would particularly interest you.  If you plan to be in Munich during Octoberfest, that is a must.  If you plan well, nine days could be delightlully filled.  If you fly to Munich, stay outside the city, for example, in Erding.  There is a Best Western Hotel across the street from a train station which will take you downtown Munich. Driving outside of the city should be no problem.  Get a detail map, mark places you want to see, such as, for example, one of the castles–Neuschwanstein, Herrenchiemsee;  take a cable car to the Kampenwand from the small town of Aschau, a trip to Berchtesgarden; a nice ride to the Austrian city of Kufstein or even an easy drive to Saltzburg.  As you can see, there are so many nice things to do in and around Munich.  Get some literature from AAA or a travel agent.  Or google a little bit. You should have a glorious nine days, with some train travel to Munich and some driving around the countryside.  If you tell us something of your particular interest, perhaps we could be more helpful.   Enjoy!!! Sandor

Response:

>Being a German, I have to say I wouldn’t do it [hitch-hike], not >even in rural areas. I lived all my live in cities, though, so I >might be over-sensitive.

I hitch-hiked about 100,000 kms (62.000 mls) in my life, most of it Germany.  I hitch-hiked to school in rural South Germany every day for three years.  I don’t hitch-hike anymore (it seems to fade away with age and the wealth to affort cars but I will pick up any hitch-hiker while driving anywhere in the world, if I have a seat available. My only bad experience was when I once borrowed 100 Marks to a hitch-hiker and I didn’t get it back. Jens

Response:

Hi, I’d never take a tour. You’re only shown what the organising company thinks you should see. Personally, I find that sticking to such a schedula ruins my holiday experience. It also prevents you from meeting the people of the countries you are travelling in. I don’t recall whether you mentioned your age… but I do know that the best way to meet other travellers in Europe is to stay at (youth) hostels. As for driving by car: As pointed out, it’s only the cities that are a problem. You may indeed find that the driving style in Germany is a bit more aggressive than say in the US or UK. But it’s definitely not "extreme" and shouldn’t be a problem for you. Just remember that Germans are used to high speeds on the highway (sometimes > 120 mph) and there’s a general rule that you must drive as far right as your speed allows. That’s actually what US citizens might find disconcerting. Some German drivers will get angry if there’s a car driving slowly on the outer left lane. If you happen to be that driver , just take the lane to the right, let them pass and ignore them. You really don’t need to worry about not finding your way. Streets outside of cities are well signed all over Europe, and especially in Germany and Austria. Finding your way around in cities is also very easy, especially if you’re in a tourist place. As for language: Germany: English is spoken by many people in Germany. You probably won’t find any German below the age of 40 who doesn’t speak it at least a bit. Especially younger Germans and students speak very good English. > know enough to get by. I’ll be going to Munich and I think my greatest > fear is that I’ll get there and not know what to do or how to find it.

No worries. Munich is well prepared to tourists, especially from the US. You might want to rent a car for a day and drive to Neuschwanstein Castle. As for Munich->Vienna: Don’t take the car. It’s quite a long way and you’ll enjoy it more when you take the train. In fact, as others have pointed out, if it’s only cities you want to see, it’s better to use trains. The train system in Germany and Austria is excellent. R

Response:

> In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various > aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. Well, > I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. > Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she > absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing > it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go > on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly > around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at > all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and > that its nearly impossible to get around there by car.

I do not understand your relative’s fears. I have been to Germany three times, once on a train pass and twice in a rental car. The train pass was great. We stayed in a friend’s apartment near Lahr and made day trips from there. The people at the train station were very helpful. We would stop there on the way back one day and tell them where we planed to go the next day, and they would print up several itineraries  with departure times and connections. They were nice enough to offer these with different departure times.  My German is very limited, but they were all fluent in English. The only big city that I drove in was Hamburg, and I had no problem with aggressive drivers. Traffic moves very quickly on the autobahn, but I did not witness aggressive driving there. The guys out in the left lane were really moving, but the right lane was always there for the people who were contend to drive more slowly. Travel on the secondary roads was quite pleasant, We saw a lot of nice scenery, and the roads are in very good condition. Tours are great for some people. I could not do it. I prefer to go when and where I want, go by my schedule and eat and sleep at places that I chose. > P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is > it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

If you have a decent map and know how to read one, you should have no problem at all. Just beware of the fact that Germany is a fairly large country with a lot of small towns and side roads. The smaller maps are just not detailed enough to help you find your way around.

Response:

>> I recommend no car if you’re going to major cities. Take a bus tour > when you get to a city if you want to. Ultimately, though, the choice > is going to be up to you…. >Is it necessary to rent a car to visit villages and small towns?

Depends; lots of them have train stations, just take the train and walk (Germans are great walkers!) Can also take various boats up and down larger rivers, esp. the Rhine, get off, then get back on. And the Rhine area is also good for buses, can catch them in Cologne (Koln) for the day, cruise through and explore tons of (touristy!) small towns…

Response:

>>Is it safe >to hitch-hike around rural parts of Germany? > Yes, however it became less and less popular during the last couple of > years.  In rural areas that have less infrastructure it is still more > accepted.

Being a German, I have to say I wouldn’t do it, not even in rural areas. I lived all my live in cities, though, so I might be over-sensitive. R

Response:

>Is it necessary to rent a car to visit villages and small towns?

There areb buses or trains going virtually anywhere.  A car might be mor comfortable, though.  Or how about a combination of public transport and bicycle? >Is it safe >to hitch-hike around rural parts of Germany?

Yes, however it became less and less popular during the last couple of years.  In rural areas that have less infrastructure it is still more accepted. >We get loads of German tourists in Alaska. I’m going to start asking them >how to *really* visit Germany, to meet people, see the neat things and >have fun. (Alaskans take neat tourists home with us.)

Take them home with you in Alaska and then visit them home in Germany. Having a private guide in a couple of places that is showing you his or her personal (part of) Germany is certainly the best way to learn to know Germany. Jens

Response:

> I recommend no car if you’re going to major cities. Take a bus tour > when you get to a city if you want to. Ultimately, though, the choice > is going to be up to you….

Is it necessary to rent a car to visit villages and small towns? Is it safe to hitch-hike around rural parts of Germany? We get loads of German tourists in Alaska. I’m going to start asking them how to *really* visit Germany, to meet people, see the neat things and have fun. (Alaskans take neat tourists home with us.)    Jan

Response:

>You can easily spend nine days in and around Munich.

I came to Munich 15 years ago and wanted to stay for six months.  I’m still there and it’s still not boring. Jens

Response:

I recommend no car if you’re going to major cities. Take a bus tour when you get to a city if you want to. Ultimately, though, the choice is going to be up to you….

Response:

>My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of >people speak English there anyway and I probably know enough to get by.

When I first went to Germany, I spoke very little German but I never had any problems at all. If you have normal intelligence, you will cope. — Marie Lewis

Response:

> As for Munich->Vienna: Don’t take the car. It’s quite a long way and > you’ll enjoy it more when you take the train. In fact, as others have > pointed out, if it’s only cities you want to see, it’s better to use > trains. The train system in Germany and Austria is excellent.

And despite the time to drive and take the train being roughly the same, you’ll spend the rest of the day looking for somewhere to park in Vienna. Public transport there is excellent.

Response:

<snipped> Don’t let your relative phase you.   If you only want to go to Munich and Wien, then don’t plan on a car rental. As others have said, you can get around the center of the city easily on public transport and between the cities easily on the trains.  Cars are a waste of money in Germany. German drivers follow the rules.  The autobahn is not tough, if you prefer not to drive fast, just stay in the right and you will be fine.  Local roads are all in good condition and easy to use. Signage is very good, REmember Ausfahrt is not a town (it means Exit) and Einbahnstrasse  is a ONe way Street. You might want to rent a car one day to see the castles, which I think you had expressed interest in.  Better yet take two days, drive down one morning and back the next evening, spending a night in the alps.  There is plenty to do there, don’t skimp on it. The trains to Vienna, though not ICE trains will be comfortable and fine.   Julie — Julie Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all, >In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various >aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. >Well, >I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. >Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she >absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing >it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go >on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder >aimlessly >around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at >all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive >and >that its nearly impossible to get around there by car.

Anthony, Don’t let the experiences of this relative throw you.  She must have seen the drivers in Rome, but I can’t figure how she’s so certain "all Europe" is like that.  Unless you’re a really uptight traveller you should treat yourself to independent travel.  You might even meet some natives that way. Use public transport, especially in the city, and if you feel at a loss there are always locally offered day trips to various points of interest. Check at the tourist office.   Have a good trip.

Response:

> Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she > absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing > it was and how impossible it was to get around.

Perhaps she’s a bit confused at all? Millions of tourists make it thru Italy by car > She kept suggesting that I go > on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly > around Germany.

Everyboby as he likes it… When I visit a foreign country I prefer "aimlessly" instead of a schedule. I have a schedule all the year at work. > She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and > that its nearly impossible to get around there by car.

Perhaps she raced along at 50 mph on the left lane of a autobahn? After while people in the queue behind her will be kind of agressive. Most drivers observe the rules. Exception: speed limits. 10-20 kph more is an unwritten law. Driving in Geramy is really comfortable. Road signs at smallest junctions. Both small country roads for promenading and speed roads to get somewhere quickly. > My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of > people speak English there anyway

Don’t worry, everybody older than 10 years speeks enough english for your needs. But, of course, it’s always nice to understand the language of the country you are travelling in. > going to Munich and I think my greatest fear is that I’ll get there and not > know what to do or how to find it.

What about travel guides to select the things to visit according to your interests? > P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is

4 to 5 hours. www.bahn.de, tab "Int. Guests". > it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

Direct autobahn link. Toll sticker needed in Austria! Walter

Response:

You don’t need a car at all. Just use public transportation everywhere you go, and make up the difference by taking cabs within cities if necessary. Why give yourself a headache trying to rent a car and drive all over Germany when you can simply sit and relax on a train? And don’t worry about not speaking German well. Just give it your best shot, and if that fails you’ll still be fine. Remember, you’re far from the first person to visit Germany who doesn’t speak German well. In my opinion tours are just too stuffy and organized. I think it’s much more relaxing to just go sight seeing on your own. You’ll be just fine.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all, > In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various > aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. Well, > I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. > Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she > absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing > it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go > on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly > around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at > all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and > that its nearly impossible to get around there by car. > What do you all think?? Is a tour better then going alone (I’ll actually be > with my sister). My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of > people speak English there anyway and I probably know enough to get by. I’ll be > going to Munich and I think my greatest fear is that I’ll get there and not > know what to do or how to find it. But still, I really would rather not go on a > tour because I much prefer being able to explore things myself.. I’m only going > for 9 days so maybe this is all a moot point as I won’t be able to see that > much anyway. Anyway, thanks for any advice you might have. > Sincerely, Anthony > P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is > it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

Anthony, Driving in Italy is a bit of a challenge. Get good maps and study them before you hit the road and/or have a good map reading navigator in the seat next to you. German autobahnen are well marked and a pleasure to drive, assuming you like to fly at 100+ mph. Cities throughout Europe are difficult to drive in. Also, there are confusing parking regulations everywhere. There is no reason to drive in Europe if you are visiting the major cities. Use the trains between cities and public transport within the cities. My page at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm can get you up to speed on using the trains in Europe. I think that there is no ICE from Muenchen to Wien. There are a few ECs daily which take about 5 hours. The ECs are great trains and do not require reservations, but a supplement is payable on this route. There is also an overnight train. Call the Munich tourist office at 1015-335-011-49-89-233-0300 and ask for tourist info before you depart. Call during business hours in Europe or you will get a long message in German followed by the same info in English. John Bermont —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

Response:

Hi all, In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. Well, I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and that its nearly impossible to get around there by car. What do you all think?? Is a tour better then going alone (I’ll actually be with my sister). My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of people speak English there anyway and I probably know enough to get by. I’ll be going to Munich and I think my greatest fear is that I’ll get there and not know what to do or how to find it. But still, I really would rather not go on a tour because I much prefer being able to explore things myself.. I’m only going for 9 days so maybe this is all a moot point as I won’t be able to see that much anyway. Anyway, thanks for any advice you might have. Sincerely, Anthony P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

Response:

Mr. A Venez asked many questions about a nine-day trip to Germany. You can easily spend nine days in and around Munich.  I agree, a tour is generally fast-paced and not the nicest way to see the places which would particularly interest you.  If you plan to be in Munich during Octoberfest, that is a must.  If you plan well, nine days could be delightlully filled.  If you fly to Munich, stay outside the city, for example, in Erding.  There is a Best Western Hotel across the street from a train station which will take you downtown Munich. Driving outside of the city should be no problem.  Get a detail map, mark places you want to see, such as, for example, one of the castles–Neuschwanstein, Herrenchiemsee;  take a cable car to the Kampenwand from the small town of Aschau, a trip to Berchtesgarden; a nice ride to the Austrian city of Kufstein or even an easy drive to Saltzburg.  As you can see, there are so many nice things to do in and around Munich.  Get some literature from AAA or a travel agent.  Or google a little bit. You should have a glorious nine days, with some train travel to Munich and some driving around the countryside.  If you tell us something of your particular interest, perhaps we could be more helpful.   Enjoy!!! Sandor

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all, > In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various > aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. Well, > I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. > Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she > absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing > it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go > on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly > around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at > all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and > that its nearly impossible to get around there by car. > What do you all think?? Is a tour better then going alone (I’ll actually be > with my sister). My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of > people speak English there anyway and I probably know enough to get by. I’ll be > going to Munich and I think my greatest fear is that I’ll get there and not > know what to do or how to find it. But still, I really would rather not go on a > tour because I much prefer being able to explore things myself.. I’m only going > for 9 days so maybe this is all a moot point as I won’t be able to see that > much anyway. Anyway, thanks for any advice you might have. > Sincerely, Anthony > P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is > it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

Anthony, Driving in Italy is a bit of a challenge. Get good maps and study them before you hit the road and/or have a good map reading navigator in the seat next to you. German autobahnen are well marked and a pleasure to drive, assuming you like to fly at 100+ mph. Cities throughout Europe are difficult to drive in. Also, there are confusing parking regulations everywhere. There is no reason to drive in Europe if you are visiting the major cities. Use the trains between cities and public transport within the cities. My page at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm can get you up to speed on using the trains in Europe. I think that there is no ICE from Muenchen to Wien. There are a few ECs daily which take about 5 hours. The ECs are great trains and do not require reservations, but a supplement is payable on this route. There is also an overnight train. Call the Munich tourist office at 1015-335-011-49-89-233-0300 and ask for tourist info before you depart. Call during business hours in Europe or you will get a long message in German followed by the same info in English. John Bermont —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

Response:

You don’t need a car at all. Just use public transportation everywhere you go, and make up the difference by taking cabs within cities if necessary. Why give yourself a headache trying to rent a car and drive all over Germany when you can simply sit and relax on a train? And don’t worry about not speaking German well. Just give it your best shot, and if that fails you’ll still be fine. Remember, you’re far from the first person to visit Germany who doesn’t speak German well. In my opinion tours are just too stuffy and organized. I think it’s much more relaxing to just go sight seeing on your own. You’ll be just fine.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all, >In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various >aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. >Well, >I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. >Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she >absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing >it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go >on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder >aimlessly >around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at >all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive >and >that its nearly impossible to get around there by car.

Anthony, Don’t let the experiences of this relative throw you.  She must have seen the drivers in Rome, but I can’t figure how she’s so certain "all Europe" is like that.  Unless you’re a really uptight traveller you should treat yourself to independent travel.  You might even meet some natives that way. Use public transport, especially in the city, and if you feel at a loss there are always locally offered day trips to various points of interest. Check at the tourist office.   Have a good trip.

Response:

> Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she > absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing > it was and how impossible it was to get around.

Perhaps she’s a bit confused at all? Millions of tourists make it thru Italy by car > She kept suggesting that I go > on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly > around Germany.

Everyboby as he likes it… When I visit a foreign country I prefer "aimlessly" instead of a schedule. I have a schedule all the year at work. > She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and > that its nearly impossible to get around there by car.

Perhaps she raced along at 50 mph on the left lane of a autobahn? After while people in the queue behind her will be kind of agressive. Most drivers observe the rules. Exception: speed limits. 10-20 kph more is an unwritten law. Driving in Geramy is really comfortable. Road signs at smallest junctions. Both small country roads for promenading and speed roads to get somewhere quickly. > My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of > people speak English there anyway

Don’t worry, everybody older than 10 years speeks enough english for your needs. But, of course, it’s always nice to understand the language of the country you are travelling in. > going to Munich and I think my greatest fear is that I’ll get there and not > know what to do or how to find it.

What about travel guides to select the things to visit according to your interests? > P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is

4 to 5 hours. www.bahn.de, tab "Int. Guests". > it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

Direct autobahn link. Toll sticker needed in Austria! Walter

Response:

Hi, I’d never take a tour. You’re only shown what the organising company thinks you should see. Personally, I find that sticking to such a schedula ruins my holiday experience. It also prevents you from meeting the people of the countries you are travelling in. I don’t recall whether you mentioned your age… but I do know that the best way to meet other travellers in Europe is to stay at (youth) hostels. As for driving by car: As pointed out, it’s only the cities that are a problem. You may indeed find that the driving style in Germany is a bit more aggressive than say in the US or UK. But it’s definitely not "extreme" and shouldn’t be a problem for you. Just remember that Germans are used to high speeds on the highway (sometimes > 120 mph) and there’s a general rule that you must drive as far right as your speed allows. That’s actually what US citizens might find disconcerting. Some German drivers will get angry if there’s a car driving slowly on the outer left lane. If you happen to be that driver , just take the lane to the right, let them pass and ignore them. You really don’t need to worry about not finding your way. Streets outside of cities are well signed all over Europe, and especially in Germany and Austria. Finding your way around in cities is also very easy, especially if you’re in a tourist place. As for language: Germany: English is spoken by many people in Germany. You probably won’t find any German below the age of 40 who doesn’t speak it at least a bit. Especially younger Germans and students speak very good English. > know enough to get by. I’ll be going to Munich and I think my greatest > fear is that I’ll get there and not know what to do or how to find it.

No worries. Munich is well prepared to tourists, especially from the US. You might want to rent a car for a day and drive to Neuschwanstein Castle. As for Munich->Vienna: Don’t take the car. It’s quite a long way and you’ll enjoy it more when you take the train. In fact, as others have pointed out, if it’s only cities you want to see, it’s better to use trains. The train system in Germany and Austria is excellent. R

Response:

> As for Munich->Vienna: Don’t take the car. It’s quite a long way and > you’ll enjoy it more when you take the train. In fact, as others have > pointed out, if it’s only cities you want to see, it’s better to use > trains. The train system in Germany and Austria is excellent.

And despite the time to drive and take the train being roughly the same, you’ll spend the rest of the day looking for somewhere to park in Vienna. Public transport there is excellent.

Response:

<snipped> Don’t let your relative phase you.   If you only want to go to Munich and Wien, then don’t plan on a car rental. As others have said, you can get around the center of the city easily on public transport and between the cities easily on the trains.  Cars are a waste of money in Germany. German drivers follow the rules.  The autobahn is not tough, if you prefer not to drive fast, just stay in the right and you will be fine.  Local roads are all in good condition and easy to use. Signage is very good, REmember Ausfahrt is not a town (it means Exit) and Einbahnstrasse  is a ONe way Street. You might want to rent a car one day to see the castles, which I think you had expressed interest in.  Better yet take two days, drive down one morning and back the next evening, spending a night in the alps.  There is plenty to do there, don’t skimp on it. The trains to Vienna, though not ICE trains will be comfortable and fine.   Julie — Julie Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Response:

>My german is probably pretty bad but I’ve heard that lots of >people speak English there anyway and I probably know enough to get by.

When I first went to Germany, I spoke very little German but I never had any problems at all. If you have normal intelligence, you will cope. — Marie Lewis

Response:

>You can easily spend nine days in and around Munich.

I came to Munich 15 years ago and wanted to stay for six months.  I’m still there and it’s still not boring. Jens

Response:

I recommend no car if you’re going to major cities. Take a bus tour when you get to a city if you want to. Ultimately, though, the choice is going to be up to you….

Response:

> I recommend no car if you’re going to major cities. Take a bus tour > when you get to a city if you want to. Ultimately, though, the choice > is going to be up to you….

Is it necessary to rent a car to visit villages and small towns? Is it safe to hitch-hike around rural parts of Germany? We get loads of German tourists in Alaska. I’m going to start asking them how to *really* visit Germany, to meet people, see the neat things and have fun. (Alaskans take neat tourists home with us.)    Jan

Response:

>Is it necessary to rent a car to visit villages and small towns?

There areb buses or trains going virtually anywhere.  A car might be mor comfortable, though.  Or how about a combination of public transport and bicycle? >Is it safe >to hitch-hike around rural parts of Germany?

Yes, however it became less and less popular during the last couple of years.  In rural areas that have less infrastructure it is still more accepted. >We get loads of German tourists in Alaska. I’m going to start asking them >how to *really* visit Germany, to meet people, see the neat things and >have fun. (Alaskans take neat tourists home with us.)

Take them home with you in Alaska and then visit them home in Germany. Having a private guide in a couple of places that is showing you his or her personal (part of) Germany is certainly the best way to learn to know Germany. Jens

Response:

>>Is it safe >to hitch-hike around rural parts of Germany? > Yes, however it became less and less popular during the last couple of > years.  In rural areas that have less infrastructure it is still more > accepted.

Being a German, I have to say I wouldn’t do it, not even in rural areas. I lived all my live in cities, though, so I might be over-sensitive. R

Response:

>> I recommend no car if you’re going to major cities. Take a bus tour > when you get to a city if you want to. Ultimately, though, the choice > is going to be up to you…. >Is it necessary to rent a car to visit villages and small towns?

Depends; lots of them have train stations, just take the train and walk (Germans are great walkers!) Can also take various boats up and down larger rivers, esp. the Rhine, get off, then get back on. And the Rhine area is also good for buses, can catch them in Cologne (Koln) for the day, cruise through and explore tons of (touristy!) small towns…

Response:

> In the last week I’ve left a couple of messages here asking about various > aspects of traveling in Germany that you’ve all been very helpful with.. Well, > I have a couple of more questions that I’m hoping you can help me with. > Tonight, I had a relative over the house who had traveled to Italy and she > absolutely scared the hell out of me. She kept telling me about how confusing > it was and how impossible it was to get around. She kept suggesting that I go > on a tour so that I will have some kind of schedule and won’t wonder aimlessly > around Germany. She implied that without a tour I went get to see anything at > all. She also warned me that the drivers in Europe are extremely agressive and > that its nearly impossible to get around there by car.

I do not understand your relative’s fears. I have been to Germany three times, once on a train pass and twice in a rental car. The train pass was great. We stayed in a friend’s apartment near Lahr and made day trips from there. The people at the train station were very helpful. We would stop there on the way back one day and tell them where we planed to go the next day, and they would print up several itineraries  with departure times and connections. They were nice enough to offer these with different departure times.  My German is very limited, but they were all fluent in English. The only big city that I drove in was Hamburg, and I had no problem with aggressive drivers. Traffic moves very quickly on the autobahn, but I did not witness aggressive driving there. The guys out in the left lane were really moving, but the right lane was always there for the people who were contend to drive more slowly. Travel on the secondary roads was quite pleasant, We saw a lot of nice scenery, and the roads are in very good condition. Tours are great for some people. I could not do it. I prefer to go when and where I want, go by my schedule and eat and sleep at places that I chose. > P.S… about how long is a train ride on the ICE between munich and vienna…is > it feasable to drive there if you don’t really know your way around??

If you have a decent map and know how to read one, you should have no problem at all. Just beware of the fact that Germany is a fairly large country with a lot of small towns and side roads. The smaller maps are just not detailed enough to help you find your way around.

Response:

>Being a German, I have to say I wouldn’t do it [hitch-hike], not >even in rural areas. I lived all my live in cities, though, so I >might be over-sensitive.

I hitch-hiked about 100,000 kms (62.000 mls) in my life, most of it Germany.  I hitch-hiked to school in rural South Germany every day for three years.  I don’t hitch-hike anymore (it seems to fade away with age and the wealth to affort cars but I will pick up any hitch-hiker while driving anywhere in the world, if I have a seat available. My only bad experience was when I once borrowed 100 Marks to a hitch-hiker and I didn’t get it back. Jens

Response: